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Transcript
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SPEAKER 4
I'm Mehdi Hassan. I'm Owen Jones. And we're two outspoken. Welcome to a second episode of this new segment we're doing for Zotero. Owen, thanks for coming back and joining me to talk about basically everything that's going on. And there's been a lot going on since we last spoke.
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SPEAKER 3
Quite a fair bet. I wouldn't be anywhere else, Mehdi, obviously. I think we'll see the fat. We'll work out most of the world's problems in half an hour.
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SPEAKER 4
We'll have to work out most of the world's problems in the next half hour. So the biggest issue right now should be what's still going on in Gaza. But what's actually become the biggest news story are the college protests, which are spreading from the US to everyone.

Is Joe Biden the ‘White Moderate’ that MLK Warned Us About?

Mehdi and Owen dissect college protests, a Rafah invasion, and UK elections on ‘Two Outspoken’

In this episode:

Owen and Mehdi discuss the ongoing misrepresentation of college protests in the mainstream media, the debate over genocide in Gaza, and the London mayoral elections. They discuss how college and antiwar protests have long been demonized to undermine public support for them, and how the term "genocide" is deliberately and conveniently mis-defined by supporters of Israel.

Plus, Mehdi takes us back in time to read Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s letter from a Birmingham jail about the “white moderate,” and reflects on its relevance to modern-day politicians, particularly in light of recent comments made by President Joe Biden.

Owen criticizes Biden's approach on all this, accusing him of fetishizing past struggles while vilifying current protests. He highlights MLK's historical unpopularity and draws parallels to contemporary criticisms of activism. Both critique Biden's stance on issues like Israel's actions in Gaza and tie it to broader public opinion trends. 

They also touch on the London mayoral elections and the challenges faced by Sadiq Khan, particularly in the context of his stance on issues like Gaza and Islamophobia. And Mehdi highlights the importance of context in journalism and the need to address misinformation and prejudice in public discourse.

‘Two Outspoken’ is a twice-monthly conversation between broadcaster, author, and Zeteo Editor-in-Chief Mehdi Hasan and political commentator, author, and activist Owen Jones. Mehdi and Owen will be discussing the news of the week, offering their analysis on the state of American and British politics, and even, from time to time, taking questions from Zeteo subscribers.

Friendly reminder: All of our content is currently available to all subscribers, free or paid. But this will only be for a limited, promotional period. Building and sustaining an independent media company like this requires, above all else, money. If you appreciate the work our team is doing, and want to be a part of this effort, please consider supporting us by becoming a paid subscriber.

Discussion about this video

User's avatar
Michael Tiemann's avatar

Joe Lewis encouraged "good trouble". Joe Biden should take some courage from that and encourage Gen Z to be the change they want to see--in Gaza, for the environment and the climate, for education, for healthcare, for bodily autonomy, for equality, and for so much more. He should not shut it down with a lecture on order, especially when police are bringing disorder with them.

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R Shelli's avatar

Biden is part of the problem. Regardless of what Democrats keep saying, he supports and is behind everything happening in the middle east. He is a Reagan neo-liberal. He is an artifact that needs to retire.

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DK Brooklyn's avatar

Is there any reason to even question whether or not to vote for Biden when the alternative is Trump? Get real.

Do you really think that Gaza is the only Middle East issue? Get real.

Do you really think that taking over a college building and holding it hostage isn’t inviting the police to respond? Get real

And if you think the police brought disorder you didn’t watch the news coverage.

We are being played.

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SteveB's avatar

I'm sorry, this is your way of convincing people to to vote FOR Biden? By insulting them? By suggesting that if they don't agree with you they're out of touch with reality? And you can't see this insulting, patronizing approach is likely to have exactly the opposite effect? With friends like you Biden doesn't need enemies.

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Robert Leyland's avatar

I agree with you, but we need to recognize that those who chose Biden may have chosen a Trojan horse; adroitly sabotaging progressive aspirations.

As to “… Biden doesn’t‘ need enemies,” you’re right. Biden is his worst enemy. He allowed, as a sycophant, Netanyahu to undermine his campaign. Biden should have known, with all the access to experts, that Bibi—like Putin and other U.S. enemies, want djt to be the next president. By supporting Bibi & Israel Biden demonstrated incompetence, bigotry and lack of a moral compass. I was a supporter of Biden, who preferred Bernie. I will reluctantly voted for Biden if it’s a choice between him and djt, but that should not be the choice.

We need to reevaluate Biden’s now that he has brazenly shown he is a lite fascist Zionist, willing to not only allow fascist Israel kill every man, woman and child in occupied Palestine, but also help Israelis accomplish their over 7-decade goal: Palestinian genocide by providing Israel the means to do it.

I agree with R Shelli, above, who stated that Biden needs to retire. There are other options; he can resign, or be fired, allowing VP Harris to assume the presidency. Biden needs to feel he blew it and best to leave before Dems & the GOP decide to unite and impeach him. Far fetch? Extreme times call for extreme measures. We could not have anticipated Biden sabotaging his campaign and putting Israel’s despicable goals ahead of those of the USA. Biden’s actions are helping trump; he crossed the line. Biden is a threat to our democracy by becoming complicit in genocide.

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DK Brooklyn's avatar

Thanks. I hear you. I don’t mean to be patronizing or insulting (maybe that is what I am naturally). I’ll think of different ways to express my fear that we are being manipulated by people who want the worst outcome. I do think most people are well intentioned, but not everyone.

I appreciate your polite way of trying to make me better.

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Howard Lott's avatar

No one is saying Trump is better than Biden. We're saying Biden isn't *different enough* from Trump, and certainly not different enough from the perspective of a kid in Gaza.

And if Biden won't flex or yield now with his reelection on the line, what makes you think he'll be moved when he's comfortably secure in a second term?

You're placing your trust is a guy who's already betraying you.

A choice between Biden and Trump isn't a choice at all.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

WHAT??? You honestly see only such a small difference between Biden and Trump that it’s not “different enough”??? Really? You’re joking, right? Biden is NOT sitting in criminal court for interfering in the 2016 election. Biden is NOT under indictment in 4 different court jurisdictions for 88 felony charges. Biden was NOT convicted of sexual assault by a jury of his peers and ordered to pay $83 million in damages and continuing defamation. AND that’s NOT ALL of it. So, REALLY, you can’t see but the tiniest of differences between them???? Really?

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Howard Lott's avatar

It's not a small difference, but it's not enough of a difference. You can't give me a cyanide pill and tell me it's so much better than being placed into a meat grinder feet first. One is obviously better than the other, but materially they reach the same result. You're going to understandably want a third option, and them getting annoyed with you over wanting something better than a poison pill isn't going to help things. Neither will the claim that the meat grinder is so much more horrible and therefore only a crazy person would deny the poison pill... it's all bad. I don't want either of them.

If both options are ultimately genocidal then that's not really a choice.

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SteveB's avatar

Eh, it's a choice.

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Susie's avatar

A massive wealthy and influential country like USA and Biden or Trump are the options? Really? Surely it’s obvious that the system is broken?

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R Shelli's avatar

You are being played.

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SteveB's avatar

I really do want Trump to lose, and necessarily, that means Biden must win. So if you could just do us all a favor and stop with the ham-handed attempts to shame us all into voting for Biden, I and the Biden campaign would both be VERY grateful, thanks.

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vin kris's avatar

You think a Genocide isn't happening in Gaza and isn't the worst thing America is causing right now? Get real

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Joe’s lecture was about being “peaceful “ (like sides not physically attacking each other), NOT “order,” like some Reaganite “law and order” police fascist.

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Oîd.com's avatar

FYI : Reaganite “law and order” -

Reagan stole the Law & Order Theme/Dog Whistle form Richard Nixon and

Richard Nixon stole the Law and Order theme from Segregationist POTUS hopeful George Corley Wallace Jr. Note : Wallace's candidacy ,which threated Nixon's rise ,as did Bobby Kennedy's , ended in an assassination attempt that left Wallace paraplegic

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Biden did not lecture on order. He advocated for peaceful protest.

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R Shelli's avatar

They would be peaceful if the cops and maga zionists would stop making trouble.

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SteveB's avatar

Sorry, some of his statement is just nonsense. "Breaking windows is not peaceful protest." OK, Joe, what if 500 people march and ONE person breaks a window? Does the whole protest automatically become not-peaceful at that moment? Why are we defining the entire protest by one act?

When it's a protest the Democrats support, like the George Floyd protests, they're able to make this distinction - it's not fair to delegitimize an entire protest movement because of property damage - but when a protest comes along that Biden does NOT like, it's a different - and impossible - standard.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Biden did not try to “shut down”protests. He did not “lecture” anyone on “order.” Biden asked protesters to please be “peaceful.” Police did not bring “disorder.” Counter protesters brought disorder (Ex: UCLA: large group of non-students arriving on-campus, dressed in black with white masks, throwing wood objects and a metal barrier at peaceful student pro Palestinian protestors, LAPD and CHP only called and arriving 3 hours later, LA Times, 5-4-24, page 1) to peaceful pro-Palestinian protesters. Let’s all stop using such inflammatory verbiage to describe situations in which everyone, from President Biden on down to University administrators are quite painfully doing their level best to turn temperatures down.

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Jay's avatar

Hi friends, pls sign this petition to list individual IDF soldiers accountable on the Specially Designated Global Terrorist List: https://chng.it/sPyssnJYbF

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SteveB's avatar

Really interesting to contrast the Democrats' response to the George Floyd protests, where there was some property damage, some scuffles with the cops, some people shouting things they shouldn't, as happens at many protests. Then, Democrats were clear a few bad actors didn't discredit the overall protest movement, which they generally described as "peaceful."

I can only conclude Biden is taking this very different approach with these protests, not because the protesters behavior and tactics are really that different, but because he just doesn't agree with their demands.

And that's where the debate SHOULD be, on what the protesters are actually saying about Gaza and Israel, and what they are demanding of their University and if that's right or not. Who keeps derailing the debate into a debate about protest tactics? Pretty clearly it's people who don't want any change - or even scrutiny - of US policy towards Israel, and they've decided not to be honest and take their case to the public, instead choosing to just smear the protesters as antisemites. To me, that reveals the weakness of the case in Israel's defense.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Actually, as the Los Angeles Times reported today, the UCLA student anti-Gaza Genocide protest, which was a quiet sit-in and camp, was not marked by any violence whatsoever for several days, until outside pro-Israel counter protesters, and seemingly quite organized and non-student, arrived in hard white masks and carrying shields in the wee hours of Thursday morning, and physically attacked

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SteveB's avatar

Good the hear the truth is finally getting out. The initial lazy-media response was "violence breaks out at protest" which was enough for the Mayor and some members of the city council to claim the police crackdown was justified. Funny how that works, right-wing provocateurs bring the violence, which ushers in the cops, who bring even MORE violence, almost like they're working together...

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J'Amy McLellan's avatar

The police forces being trained by IsNotReal probably are. Who thought having US police forces trained by a racist military force like the IOF was a good idea?

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Susie's avatar

Remember what Netenyahu said … ‘these protests are horrific’! If he had his way, the universities would be bombed I suspect. USA politicians seem to be following his lead 😢

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Sarel Van Der Walt's avatar

This reminds me very much about the writings of Steve Biko in the 1970s and his characterisation of White liberals in South Africa.

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SteveB's avatar

And then when they make a movie about Biko, it's the White Liberal who's made the hero:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cry_Freedom

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Jack Callahan's avatar

I really like Owen but his accent is hard for me , only me , to understand . Honestly, Biden is so out of touch of young people who are morally right . He does't understand that he is complicit in genocide and he does have the power to stop it. That is the through line of his administration , that he has the power to affect positive change but falls short of following through . It's the appearance of doing things , sheer theatre , instead of actually doing what he says.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

It’s not Owen’s accent that’s the problem, as much as he talks a mile a second. Fraid that, unlike his “predecessor,” Biden uses gentle diplomacy to accomplish his means. Bibi is slowly being guided out of his genocide, Bibi being much like Biden’s predecessor, is unwilling to give up even a single inch, as he sees it critical to maintaining his position to avoid prosecution for his corruption.

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SteveB's avatar

"Biden uses gentle diplomacy to accomplish his means. Bibi is slowly being guided out of his genocide..."

Netanyahu just said a couple of days ago that they're going into Rafah, whether they get a hostage deal or not.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Bibi can brag all he wants with his braggadocio a’la T.Rump. Watch Biden. Just watch him. Bibi will go nowhere near Rafah, and if he even starts, things will come to an abrupt halt for him. Just watch him. (This is gentle diplomacy. Imperceptibly slow, then a Big Bash over Bibi’s Butt.)

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SteveB's avatar

I don't see anything to justify this except a desire to see Biden as being in charge. Netanyahu has shown ZERO restraint up to this point, now you're telling me he will show restraint in the future. OK, I hope you're right, but this is like telling me the Cardinals are going to win the World Series, it's not based on the track record or any other observable evidence.

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Sally Livingston's avatar

Someone below suggested turning the playback speed down to 75. It works!

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Not that interested, given the “slightly” anti-Biden (which, by default becomes pro T.Rump) bias).

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Jackie Yeomans's avatar

where do you find playback speed?

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Sally Livingston's avatar

Look for the three dots on the right ... good luck!

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Jackie Yeomans's avatar

thanks so much.

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R Shelli's avatar

Biden understands quite well. He is intentionally complicit.

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Jackie Yeomans's avatar

I'm glad I had cc on - otherwise I wouldn't have understood a word he said. He talks way too fast. Slow down Bud - you have good stuff to say!

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Richard Groomer's avatar

The images we saw of counter protesters attacking peaceful protesters at UCLA must seem strangely familiar to anyone who saw footage of the the January 6 insurrection. What we are witnessing is political violence of the same stripe. Right wing street violence creates chaos and permits the right to control the narrative. Biden has adopted that narrative and cannot lead us out of this horrific impasse. Americans of conscience must be clear that we will not accept his candidacy for re-election. This is a job for the upcoming Democratic convention. Give us a candidate who can commit to a peaceful world that we can vote for.

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SteveB's avatar

"counter protesters attacking peaceful protesters at UCLA"

Or, as the media chooses to report it, "Violence breaks out at UCLA protest." You know that violence, it just "breaks out" sometimes, like measles at a Florida day care.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Dream on, buddy. No way the Democratic convention will choose anyone else, unless he dies prior. I fail to see how Biden has “adopted the right wing…narrative.” He quite strongly advocated for peaceful protest. And, finally, a vote for anyone else than Biden, including the burnt out drug addict and brain addled member of the Kennedy family, is a vote for T.Rump. (And, please don’t respond that you are hoping for anyone’s death—that would be most un-American.)

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Ashfaq Khan's avatar

Biden is a self proclaimed Zionist. Why do you expect anything different? He is not a white moderate even though he pretends to be.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

WHAT??? Where EXACTLY did you get that Biden was a “self-proclaimed Zionist”? Do you even know what the term means??? Biden has NEVER SAID or even VAGUELY IMPLIED “from the river to the sea.” Please get a grip on it, Okay?

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R Shelli's avatar

He said so himself. This is just one of many speeches.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jov9jxRecFc

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Alexandru Dragoescu's avatar

Or maybe this video is more clarifying for you: https://youtu.be/1vDx-5b7T8M?si=1hJYuqL5GxQzR1YU

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Alexandrou, perhaps a “slightly” more nuanced definition of zionism: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/03/zionist-definition-explained-protests/

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Alexandru Dragoescu's avatar

I didn't questioned the definition of zionism i just showed you videos where Biden declared himself a zionist (i.e I just answered your question: "Where EXACTLY did you get that Biden is a self proclaimed Zionist?")

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Susie's avatar

Personally, I got it from him saying it! See clips below. The fact that a proclaimed catholic says he’s a Zionist, also means that anti-Zionism cannot be anti-semetism 👍 You can’t have it both ways.🙄

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J'Amy McLellan's avatar

You need to apologize to Ashfaq for being so condescending and WRONG.

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R Shelli's avatar

Here he is in 1992 bragging about how much money he's raised for AIPAC.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4796290/user-clip-joe-biden-zionist

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John G. Ata's avatar

I liked the interview - a refreshing change from what we typically see on various MSM as well as being informative.

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Zahra Allawi's avatar

The trio that have given us a ray of hope in these times of immense darkness!

They’ve articulated what we’ve been feeling, they’ve shouted to the world what we’ve been shouting to ourselves , they’ve asked the questions we’ve been wanting to ask & they’ve even made us laugh when all we wanted to do is cry!!

The trio aka The holy trinity 😅 ( not to offend anyone)

Mehdi Hassan

Bassem Youssef

Owen Jones

Having followed you each individually it’s heart warming to see you now come together! 😊

This can only make you stronger!

We will do our best to support you - YOU are the voice of the voiceless!

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Dr J's Sanity Space's avatar

Side bar: Owen, could you please slow down a little bit?

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Richann Haxton's avatar

I ended up selecting .75 slower video speed and it helped me follow along.

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Jackie Yeomans's avatar

where do you find this selection?

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Richann Haxton's avatar

On the tool bar at the bottom of the video, click on the farthest right emoticon that is the column of 3 dots to open another menu displaying a variety of video playback speed options. This a standard option for most video players, usually found somewhere under settings, usually using a gear-like looking emoticon, but sometimes the column of three dots, which I think just means other available options.

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Jackie Yeomans's avatar

thank you

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Arica L. Coleman's avatar

Genocide Joe won't get my vote. He totally mischaracterized the student protest. Liar. MH is right. The protest I attended was very chill, communal, and peaceful. I attended the encampment at UPENN a!most 2 weeks ago. Two days ago request from administrators to the Philadelphia Police Department to step in and disperse the encampment on the basis that it placed the campus in imminent danger was denied because the school provided no evidence of imminent danger.

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Arica L. Coleman's avatar

Here is the link to the article about Biden's long history of Domestic and Foreign Policy from the Intercept a few years ago. https://theintercept.com/2021/04/27/joe-biden-long-war/

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Oîd.com's avatar

Here's Your Moderate Joe :

1. Biden told civil rights leaders in private meeting that progressives’ hopes for executive actions are ‘way beyond the bounds’ of his presidential authority https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/10/politics/joe-biden-audio-civil-rights-leaders/index.html

2. Joe Biden’s record on school desegregation busing, explained

The former vice president once called busing “an asinine policy.” https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/28/18965923/joe-biden-school-desegregation-busing-democratic-primary

3. Biden called Obama first "clean" African-American candidate

At best , Joe has some lifelong melan/Eurocentric related challenges - not uncommon for Americans reared in Apartheid America

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Pamela Brown's avatar

Thank you!

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Michael Tiemann's avatar

*John Lewis, sorry!

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Oîd.com's avatar

👀

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Jeffrey Hobbs's avatar

You nailed it; Joe Biden is a trailing indicator of the American zeitgeist. MLK was a radical for his time (he was regarded as a communist by conservatives); however, he still advocated peaceful protest. If you search the current presidential landscape for a visionary progressive who has even a significant following, you won't find one. It's Biden or the reactionary abyss.

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Robert Leyland's avatar

Jeffrey, as I mentioned above, Biden could retire, resign, or be impeached; VP Harris could assume the presidency. Biden should be held accountable; supporting and enabling genocide is a very serious crime. Harris is a skilled debater… In my view, our only hope.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

‘Fraid Biden will neither retire, resign, or be impeached. And there is so much misogyny in this world that no woman has a chance of winning the presidency. Ageism is the last acceptable “ism.” Why the man’s age is always held against him, when he is the most experienced public servant ever to hold office, is beyond me.

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J'Amy McLellan's avatar

I have nothing against his age other than he's held on to so much of the past we are trying to change for the better. I am done defending his past because he's shown it's still his true present. Look what he's most experienced at as a public servant. He's a racist that thinks his racism is righteous so he can smile like the good guy. He has a lot of blood on his hands but it's mostly the blood of non white people so Liberal Dems can still see him as a good option and still the lesser of 2 evils. I'm watching as women lose their rights, the border purposely being boobie trapped to drown and slice desperate immigrants to death, Gaza being decimated and its people slaghtered, the West Bank experiencing increased terrorism under the cover of Gaza's destruction, our rights to protest being threatened and smeared, our right to free speech under attack on behalf of AN APARTHEID GOVERNMENT, the loss of a SM giant on behalf of AN APARTHEID GOVERNMENT, all under Bibi's Biden. He needs to ride off into the sunset on his bike with his ice cream in hand!

If Biden loses it won't be because people with a conscious and humanity could not vote for him, it will be because he refused to listen to them. I'm tired of being scared into giving away my vote, I want it earned.

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Jeffrey Hobbs's avatar

What Biden is responsible for pales in comparison to what Bush did, yet Bush suffered no punishment and won reelection. I wouldn't mind if your scenario played out, but it's going to be tough to talk old Joe into stepping down at this late date.

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Robert Leyland's avatar

Jeffrey, your argument unfortunately is persuasive, but as they say: Two wrongs don’t make it right. Just because Bush committed his crimes with impunity doesn’t mean that Biden’s crimes should be ignored. Unless Biden feels overwhelming heat—he is the only one who can stop Israel— Palestinian genocide will likely be successful. To add insult over injury, because we failed to hold Biden accountable, DJT may win —too many may not stomach voting for a war criminal. BTW, Jill might persuade Joe it’s best to go back home and spend more time with the family. Thanks for the thoughtful and civil feedback. I still think it’s worth a try—shaming Biden out of office, by any peaceful and legal means necessary. It worked with Nixon.

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

Please STOP using names like Old Joe! Ageism is the very last acceptable “ism,” and deserves to die.

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Martin P J McCrory's avatar

Another top show boys, informative and honest, warts and all. Genocide Joe Biden is a lost cause, his hypocrisy quotient is staggering! Calling the peaceful protesters of Columbia and UCLA violent is frankly laughable, and beyond comprehension. The only violence was visited upon the Students by outside "agitators" in the form of Pro - Israel mobs running amok and attacking everything that moves. Sorry "Mr. President" but praising stormtrooper police for nearly killing a University Professor for merely filming said Police violence is not a good look. History doesn't look kindly on Genocide Enablers. The "United States of America" is a lie that doesn't bear scrutiny. The majority of Americans know the difference between a so - called War, and an ethnic cleansing of a captive Civilian Population. The people under illegal Military Occupation have the right of Self Defense - " by any means necessary" That's International Law. Free Palestine.

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Pamela Brown's avatar

Thanks for highlighting the problem of the "white moderate" on the show. One of the issues not yet being discussed is how voting for either candidate forces us to ally with white supremacy. Trump has articulated a fully racist vision for the US, but was generally unable to implement his vision due to resistance. Biden has not been so outspoken, yet has been able to (at least partially) implement his vision via the genocide in Palestine. We can see how he sees by his actions. But, we shouldn't be surprised that "white moderates" prefer the results without the rhetoric. Is it illegal now for me to say that the idea of Israel, in and of itself, necessitates ethnic cleansing, racism and genocide? While I am fearful of Trump, actions speak louder than words. We can only hope for a miracle and that a strong challenger emerges.

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Lisa's avatar

It's almost as if college kids are SMART!!!

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Kaiser Kabir's avatar

Owen speaks faster than the speed of sound.

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SteveB's avatar

When you're talking to Mehdi Hassan, and you're talking faster than HIM, that's really saying something.

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Sally Livingston's avatar

Try turning the playback speed down to .75.

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Raman Kashyap's avatar

Wonderfully illuminating discussion, Mehdi and Owen- would help if Owen slowed down in his delivery- a hardish act to follow his rapid fire, although his enthusiasm is highly infectious.

Keep up the great insights.

Biden needs to be a President for ALL the people who elected him, not just his pets.

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Sally Livingston's avatar

Someone above suggested turning the playback speed down to 75. It works!

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Murray Smart's avatar

Another Trump administration would be a massive disaster for America because this time they will do everything that they didn't get done the first time. They already have the plan in place and the players in place to implement their takeover of America, all they are waiting for is a Trump win (or a loss he or they won't accept).

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Rose Maly, MD, MSPH's avatar

And this time T.Rump and Gang knows exactly what to do to terrifyingly implement Project 2025 (read their exact plans and weep for our country and its democracy).

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SteveB's avatar

And here's what I want to know: Where's OUR plan? To resist in the courts and legislature where possible, in the streets when necessary. We can't simply pin all our hopes on Biden (especially given how determined he seems to be to flush all the support he had from young people down the toilet.) We need to be prepared for the worst, and Trump being elected is definitely the worst.

We're not helpless, let's not talk about ourselves like we are.

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Murray Smart's avatar

Yes, yes, yes.... Let's get off our rear ends and actually DO SOMETHINGS! Some suggestions - (1) Go to the patrioticmillionaires.org and read about what to do to fix our tax code that favors the wealthy and corporations and that will get worse for every single one of us (unless you are uber wealthy or Trump himself - surprise surprise Donnie will make out like the bandit he is if the Trump Tax cuts are extended and you and I will NOT) under Trump (Fix the Code 2.0). (2) Read these books (a few excellent ones of many) and take them to heart and actually DO (they are FULL of suggestions of WHAT TO DO) what they suggest: "Hit 'Em Where It Hurts: How to Save Democracy by Beating Republicans at Their Own Game" Rachel Bitecofter, "Dismantling Democracy: The forty-year attack on government...and the long game for the common good" Donald Cohen, "Corporate Bullsh*t: Exposing the Lies and Half-Truths that Protect Profit, Power, and Wealth in America" Nick Hanauer, Joan Walsh, & Donald Cohen, "Saving Democracy: A User's Manual for Every American" David Pepper, "Social Security Works for Everyone!: Protecting and Expanding the Insurance Americans Love and Count On" Nancy J. Altman and Eric R. Kingson. (3) In the book "The Submerged State" by Suzanne Mettler a survey (p. 37-40) was shared asking people if they had ever used a government social program or not - 43.5 said yes, 56.5 said no.....These were the programs they were asked if they had ever used: 529/Coverdell Tax-Deferred Savings, Home Mortgage Interest Deduction, HOPE or Lifetime Learning Credit, Student Loans, Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit, Earned Income Tax Credit, Social Security - Retirement and Survivors, Pell Grants, Unemployment Insurance, Veterans Benefits (other than GI bill), Medicare, Head Start, Social Security Disability, SSI - Supplemental Security Income, Medicad, Welfare/Public Assistance, Government Subsidized Housing, Food Stamps (SNAP), my adds Farm Subsidy, WIC. (Do you see yourself or your family, or friends, or neighbors, or community) in any of these programs? So people at times complain about the government. And have been primed, by some very powerful monied interests, to not trust or know what they actually get from the government. And not realize all the benefits that the government actually helps them with - that they may and cannot be able to provide on their own. (4) A local experiment. Go to your closest nursing home and ask them if they have enough workers. My guess is the answer is going to be NO. Then ask them what they feel can be done to help them get more workers. We are not helpless. We can do lots to stand up for ourselves, our families, our neighbors, our communities, our states, and our country from the likes of Trump. But we have to get in the game and get busy now....

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Dianne Eckstein's avatar

Love the program. Appreciate the truth telling. I need but can't find a way to get closed captions especially for Owen Jones. Keep up the good work.

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Catherine's avatar

A class act, as always.

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Citizen of the World's avatar

One child's unheeded plea from Rafah on her Instagram account:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5ELQyusB99/?igsh=MWdrMDAyNnFjcjB5Mw%3D%3D

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Mackie's avatar

How do we change public opinion??

How do we get our Govts to act in accordance to international law??

How???

It is very depressing to see and read the news feeds and the blatant hypocrisy of Our elected govt behave like this

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LC's avatar

Taylor Lorenz, who has been on the ground at protests, comes out swinging on behalf of the students on Don Lemon's podcast: https://youtu.be/NDD8xIjwK5g?si=nQ-XVxE1nSKolxEV; UCLA Faculty are making statements in support of students and what they witnessed on the ground: https://dailybruin.com/2024/05/04/ucla-academic-departments-release-statements-condemning-handling-of-encampment

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Musarat Rashid's avatar

Always so refreshing to hear them both. I feel the elections in the UK and the USA are being so much confusion for the voters as they donot have any popular leaders that they have faith in.

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Ruth's avatar

Sangita Myska to Zeteo.

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Souleiman Ghali's avatar

Great discussion

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Salim AbiEzzi's avatar

It’s because 35K mostly women and children are buried alive in the rubble of their homes, using US bombs. Worse than Auschwitz. Israel is not any safer, quite the opposite. The only thing still standing in Gaza is Hamas with the hostages.

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Adam's avatar

Owen, you need to slow down when you talk. It's Ben Shapiro-esque.

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Raman Kashyap's avatar

Thanks! That will help a lot.

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Joseph Bobrow's avatar

Owen is difficult to understand. He races and garbles. But I want to hear him.

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Dean aliye's avatar

Suggestion

The posts need to be shorter and your platform should he more accessible without compromising the pricacy of your subscribers: your chosen partner app requires access to contacts which most of is are jot willing to share

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Dean aliye's avatar

Suggestions :

Episodes need to be shorter pls

And improve your accessibility of your platform without compromising the privacy of your subscribers: to sign up to substack app we need to give access to our contacts , that should not be required

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Dr J's Sanity Space's avatar

Yes, thank you. I needed to slow myself down for rationality! lol

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SteveB's avatar

At the UW-Madison student encampment tonight, they're having a Shabbat. I don't expect any media to be there, because no violence is expected.

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SteveB's avatar

OK, I read that, I was interested in whether the author would engage at all with the issue that brought the protesters out into the streets (rather than confining the discussion solely to the tactics used by the protesters.) And aside from one sentence where she says she agrees with the criticism that Israel has not provided enough humanitarian aid, she has nothing to say about what's happening in Gaza, and tellingly, offers no defense of the actions of the Israeli military (other than "Hamas started it".)

This, I think, is really not a good sign for Israel, when even their most impassioned apologists can't mount a defense. And that is why so much attention is focused on the protesters, it reveals the weakness of the case for Israel.

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DK Brooklyn's avatar

So few are talking about the issue. Not just this author. No one. Not is about the protest. N

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SteveB's avatar

To be fair, this is just how it goes. I remember media coverage of the protests against the Iraq war, interview the police chief about how much traffic disruption it caused and did some asshole burn a flag?

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Lisa's avatar

Interesting article. He complains about three Jewish students assumed to be Zionists and then spends the entire article using isolated examples to describe very different protests involving thousands of students across the country. No real focus on the majority peaceful protesters or in the case of UCLA, the counter protesters that assaulted them. I wish people would stop picking out a few specific incidents as emblematic of thousands of people.

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SteveB's avatar

I guess we all do this, I know it was just a few Jan. 6 protesters who pooped in the halls of Congress, but that doesn't stop me from smearing (pun intended) the whole movement as a bunch of shit-heads.

But the difference is that we also have a critique of the IDEAS that motivated the Jan. 6 protesters, we don't only criticize their tactics. That's what I see missing from Israel's apologists (I wouldn't call them Israel's "defenders" because they don't offer a defense of what Israel is doing, probably because Israel's actions are indefensible.)

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0:30
SPEAKER 4
We'll have to work out most of the world's problems in the next half hour. So the biggest issue right now should be what's still going on in Gaza. But what's actually become the biggest news story are the college protests, which are spreading from the US to everyone.