DNC shouldn't have supported a Genocide. This is DNC FAULT. NO ONE ELSE. don't blame Waltz, Kamla. This is establishment DNC looking after donors and PAC MONEY. making them super unpopular with the base. DNC should leane their lesson. if they are smart... But when old folk like Clinton and Biden control policy You have no hope
Nope. The Dems made the wrong moral choice by genociding their people, their loved ones, their family and friends. But lovely to see the mask come off to expose the latent anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia lurking just beneath the surface waiting to erupt as it did with this comment.
Doug Tarnopol, you assert that they made the "wrong moral choice" according to Doug Tarnopol's definition of morality, which you haven't defined. So it's pretty simple not to agree with you on the basis of a crass and incomplete argument.
Then she trotted Bill Clinton out in Michigan to tell Arab Americans that they don't know their own history because European jews were in the middle east first therefore they have the right to slaughter their relatives.
Fuck the sanctimonious Libs for not paying attention to what Progressives have been saying for years. This is absolutely in the hands of Centrist Dems. Sure, MOST PEOPLE are clueless about policy - MOST people have not gone to college in this country, and with FAILING K-12 public education, then what do you expect out of most people's critical reasoning skills for macro-level public policies? Then the burden is on the messenger(s). And Harris/Walz, as well as their strategists, did not come up with the right messaging - AGAIN. Do you know these people who religiously follow Heather Cox Richardson? I'm not saying she isn't a great history professor. She is. But her line has been "Save Democracy" and all her followers think they are "in the know" and that's been the mantra. This is the problem of having a college-level history professor guide messaging. She is so disconnected from the Reality of what most working class people are about. There was no socio-cultural way for these people to listen to someone like Kamala Harris and believe her, unless she approached with a communication style that expressed genuine empathy for their plight. She is far too urbane and sophisticated. People who don't have more training for their critical reasoning skills only "hear" socio-cultural signaling. They don't "hear" ideas the way those who have a lot of reading skills respond to ideas. Trump is very successful with the socio-cultural signaling - that's why it doesn't matter "what" he says as much as the "how." And then actual ideas can be embraced or dismissed at any moment. B/c their currency isn't ideas at all. It's style. Anyone with more sophisticated social science training would be able to discern this. And then study what Bernie was able to achieve. Part of it comes from his style - he is gruff, he speaks with an accent, he wears boots, he is disheveled in his appearance, he's from farmer Vermont land, etc. Harris/Walz had hope, but then they went and hugged the Cheneys, snubbed the Michigan Arab-American community so publicly in favor of grocery prices, wouldn't embrace Jewish Voice for Peace, even, and then said "we're saving Democracy." These things are not even on the radar of most working class people. And don't forget- these are the classes of people who turn to the Military as their institutional route of upward mobility. They are not interested in the Cheneys returning to power. While they might want access to the Military for that upward mobility, the last thing they want is to see combat and die. And they don't want to be fighting "someone else's" war. So think about who those "someones" might be for them. Just saying. When you examine the pieces, it's possible to see that these people acted in their own self interest. And that is the bargain we make with Democracy - that everyone votes on their own self interest, and the principal of mutuality brings us all into some kind of "middle" or "compromise" of action. So. Here we are. Trump.
And you feel justified in placing all of THAT on HIS head. For saying, "Genocide is bad."
Where tf is your condemnation of the genocidally racist, Republicans-in-Democrat-drag, who:
• Very intentionally OBSTRUCTED PROSECUTION of the traitorous terrorist-leader, whose latest campaign was FACILITATED by Joe Biden & his pet AG,
• Very intentionally COLLAPSED the "INTERNATIONAL RULES-BASED ORDER," in their unrelenting zeal to commit the worst crime known to man,
• ENDORSED the FAR RIGHT GOONS of just 25 years ago, by slobbering over their endorsements, campaigning with them, and presenting themselves as old-school-Republicans,
• and then shat in the faces of their base, telling them, "YOU HAVE NO CHOICE?"
Where tf is your condemnation of the people who ARE to blame?
Where tf is your condemnation of the people who engineered a race between two genocidally racist Republican parties?
Where tf is your condemnation of the people who VERY INTENTIONALLY bridged Trump's first & second push?
If you have friends in Gaza, why the HELL haven't you ALREADY been trying to get them out?
Try to get a grip on whom your enemy IS, and whom your enemy is NOT.
Genocide IS bad. Maybe THINK about how gaslit you've been, that you were driven to ARGUE with that truth, DUMP on the speaker of that truth, and say NOTHING to condemn the PERPETRATORS of that CRIME.
Absolutely. I think Liz Cheney did more harm than good. Her father was the nail in the coffin. DIck Cheney was called Darth Vader by Democrats FFS. He is seen as the Torture King. He is not a popular guy even in his own party. Adam K. could have stayed out of it too, but he seems so much like a Democrat himself he probably didn't hurt anything. And then to mention GW Bush - are you kidding me!!! He is hated by Democrats. No way should any of those people have been courted by Democrats. It just shows how out of touch her campaign was with actual Democrats, progressives and liberals. Those people are her party, not a bunch of conservatives. But she didn't seem to know that. And her finger wagging at the Palestinian protesters was another nail in her coffin. You don't do that to protesters if you are a Democrat. That's a Trump move.
?? Are you blaming Democrats for not liking Republican policies in their Democratic candidates? We all voted for her. She didn't win because she had major flaws in her campaign and Biden hovering over the whole thing.
It is definitely not our fault. Her campaign had serious problems, Biden and his terrible foreign policy being a huge one. I don't know if you voted for her or not, but I did, and so did my whole family, and in the end it was her campaign the lost the race, not us.
Horrible. My point was Harris would have done better if she would have seemed more progressive to her actual base. Many in her base abandoned her because she was hanging around with Republicans and 2) she embraced Biden's policy on Gaza. HUGE mistakes. Democratic women did not want to see her hanging out with Liz Cheney, or any Republicans. Really avoidable disaster, if she had stuck with her party's Democratic values instead of embracing so many Republicans. Do you think Black men wanted to see the leader of the Democratic Party holding hands with Liz fracking' Cheney?
The closer to the election the more damage and destruction in Gaza , I believe Biden was purposely helping Kamala lose , I did see Kamala and DNC purposely ignored the Arab people and their concerns , She disrespected and dismissed them at every turn and opportunity .
Trumps celebration speech said he will end wars. He can be completely lying that's true. But somehow most people think he will end it. Trumps corrupt and crude sure. But he's not a war monger like DNC.
I disagree that Elon won it for Trump but he sure helped But Democrats seem to run bad campaigns lately and her campaign was just not good enough. Her embrace of Israel's wars was a massive mistake.
Harris was in a damned if you do and damned if you don’t position. So she didn’t and lost.
I understand the unhappiness in the Muslim community but now we and they have Trump. We’ll all get to see what happens here and in Europe, Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic States,Taiwan etc etc. and without doubt Israel will go on without hindrance. Jared will likely get his beachside condos in Gaza and maybe Trump his hotel in Moscow. Not a good outcome for America.
We just elected least thoughtful president and vice president in history whose four years may destroy democracy and the lives of gay people, African Americans, women, Jews, Latinos, Haitians and Muslims as well as undermine science, the environment, public education, and the separation of church and state. And we’ll all get to watch.
Yep every vote counted and in the end we all did this.
Biden would have lost worse, but of course his VP wasn't going to win either. She could not break with her own administration. Democrats should have seen that coming.
Don’t kid yourself they love it. Probably half or more of Trump’s support come from the christian right. All those ministers preaching vote for Trump and the Catholic Church benignly supporting evil tied are together by the abortion issue. Meanwhile evangelicals and other “true believers” a significant part of this group believe in the bat-shit crazy notion of the rapture and they need Jews in Israel to facilitate it. Yes, people really really believe this stuff.
Our talking in tongues current Speaker of the House is one of those true believers. And these folks are all in on Israel existing and dominating the Middle East. Not good for Jews, for the Muslim people in the area and not good for America.
Actually She said in a speech , She had a voice in every important issue and would not do anything different , Biden helped her lose by his unhinged inhumane actions in Gaza and She hurt herself by standing next to him
It was her choice , She said she was involved with Biden decisions , sending 2 -3 thousand lb bombs to drop on cloth tents with women and children , burning to death , She also said She would not do anything different than Biden . This is what she showed herself , if they say it out loud without shame or humanity, You should believe them
Fuck those idiots for voting for Trump.
DNC shouldn't have supported a Genocide. This is DNC FAULT. NO ONE ELSE. don't blame Waltz, Kamla. This is establishment DNC looking after donors and PAC MONEY. making them super unpopular with the base. DNC should leane their lesson. if they are smart... But when old folk like Clinton and Biden control policy You have no hope
See, I think Arabs and Muslims are full human beings. Thus, they have free will. These morons made the wrong moral choice. Ergo: fuck them.
Pretty simple.
Nope. The Dems made the wrong moral choice by genociding their people, their loved ones, their family and friends. But lovely to see the mask come off to expose the latent anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia lurking just beneath the surface waiting to erupt as it did with this comment.
Don't you love it when losers like Doug reveal themselves to be misogynist pigs by calling women cunts?
It’s the exact opposite, you stupid cunt.
Doug Tarnopol, you assert that they made the "wrong moral choice" according to Doug Tarnopol's definition of morality, which you haven't defined. So it's pretty simple not to agree with you on the basis of a crass and incomplete argument.
Then she trotted Bill Clinton out in Michigan to tell Arab Americans that they don't know their own history because European jews were in the middle east first therefore they have the right to slaughter their relatives.
Look at the wonderful future Trump will bring the Palestinians!
https://www.commondreams.org/news/trump-israel-annexation
That ought to show the Democrats!
You guys are political *geniuses*!
Trump win means ‘time has come’ to annex parts of West Bank, Israeli minister says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/11/israel-iran-war-news-gaza-palestine-lebanon/
So smart!
Fuck the sanctimonious Libs for not paying attention to what Progressives have been saying for years. This is absolutely in the hands of Centrist Dems. Sure, MOST PEOPLE are clueless about policy - MOST people have not gone to college in this country, and with FAILING K-12 public education, then what do you expect out of most people's critical reasoning skills for macro-level public policies? Then the burden is on the messenger(s). And Harris/Walz, as well as their strategists, did not come up with the right messaging - AGAIN. Do you know these people who religiously follow Heather Cox Richardson? I'm not saying she isn't a great history professor. She is. But her line has been "Save Democracy" and all her followers think they are "in the know" and that's been the mantra. This is the problem of having a college-level history professor guide messaging. She is so disconnected from the Reality of what most working class people are about. There was no socio-cultural way for these people to listen to someone like Kamala Harris and believe her, unless she approached with a communication style that expressed genuine empathy for their plight. She is far too urbane and sophisticated. People who don't have more training for their critical reasoning skills only "hear" socio-cultural signaling. They don't "hear" ideas the way those who have a lot of reading skills respond to ideas. Trump is very successful with the socio-cultural signaling - that's why it doesn't matter "what" he says as much as the "how." And then actual ideas can be embraced or dismissed at any moment. B/c their currency isn't ideas at all. It's style. Anyone with more sophisticated social science training would be able to discern this. And then study what Bernie was able to achieve. Part of it comes from his style - he is gruff, he speaks with an accent, he wears boots, he is disheveled in his appearance, he's from farmer Vermont land, etc. Harris/Walz had hope, but then they went and hugged the Cheneys, snubbed the Michigan Arab-American community so publicly in favor of grocery prices, wouldn't embrace Jewish Voice for Peace, even, and then said "we're saving Democracy." These things are not even on the radar of most working class people. And don't forget- these are the classes of people who turn to the Military as their institutional route of upward mobility. They are not interested in the Cheneys returning to power. While they might want access to the Military for that upward mobility, the last thing they want is to see combat and die. And they don't want to be fighting "someone else's" war. So think about who those "someones" might be for them. Just saying. When you examine the pieces, it's possible to see that these people acted in their own self interest. And that is the bargain we make with Democracy - that everyone votes on their own self interest, and the principal of mutuality brings us all into some kind of "middle" or "compromise" of action. So. Here we are. Trump.
Trump win means ‘time has come’ to annex parts of West Bank, Israeli minister says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/11/israel-iran-war-news-gaza-palestine-lebanon/
Bearing fruit already! Are they partying in Dearborn?
Great coverage Mehdi and team - really appreciate you all helping us manage our nausea 🤒
Genocide is bad karma, sums it up.
And you feel justified in placing all of THAT on HIS head. For saying, "Genocide is bad."
Where tf is your condemnation of the genocidally racist, Republicans-in-Democrat-drag, who:
• Very intentionally OBSTRUCTED PROSECUTION of the traitorous terrorist-leader, whose latest campaign was FACILITATED by Joe Biden & his pet AG,
• Very intentionally COLLAPSED the "INTERNATIONAL RULES-BASED ORDER," in their unrelenting zeal to commit the worst crime known to man,
• ENDORSED the FAR RIGHT GOONS of just 25 years ago, by slobbering over their endorsements, campaigning with them, and presenting themselves as old-school-Republicans,
• and then shat in the faces of their base, telling them, "YOU HAVE NO CHOICE?"
Where tf is your condemnation of the people who ARE to blame?
Where tf is your condemnation of the people who engineered a race between two genocidally racist Republican parties?
Where tf is your condemnation of the people who VERY INTENTIONALLY bridged Trump's first & second push?
If you have friends in Gaza, why the HELL haven't you ALREADY been trying to get them out?
Try to get a grip on whom your enemy IS, and whom your enemy is NOT.
Genocide IS bad. Maybe THINK about how gaslit you've been, that you were driven to ARGUE with that truth, DUMP on the speaker of that truth, and say NOTHING to condemn the PERPETRATORS of that CRIME.
💔
YES. So does doing a genocide.
Liz Cheney, war criminal Dick Cheney, supporting genocide, torture and the military industrial complex hurt democrats.
Absolutely. I think Liz Cheney did more harm than good. Her father was the nail in the coffin. DIck Cheney was called Darth Vader by Democrats FFS. He is seen as the Torture King. He is not a popular guy even in his own party. Adam K. could have stayed out of it too, but he seems so much like a Democrat himself he probably didn't hurt anything. And then to mention GW Bush - are you kidding me!!! He is hated by Democrats. No way should any of those people have been courted by Democrats. It just shows how out of touch her campaign was with actual Democrats, progressives and liberals. Those people are her party, not a bunch of conservatives. But she didn't seem to know that. And her finger wagging at the Palestinian protesters was another nail in her coffin. You don't do that to protesters if you are a Democrat. That's a Trump move.
?? Are you blaming Democrats for not liking Republican policies in their Democratic candidates? We all voted for her. She didn't win because she had major flaws in her campaign and Biden hovering over the whole thing.
Sure Doug, it's all my fault for stating facts
It is definitely not our fault. Her campaign had serious problems, Biden and his terrible foreign policy being a huge one. I don't know if you voted for her or not, but I did, and so did my whole family, and in the end it was her campaign the lost the race, not us.
Good talk but yes, Liz Cheney is not who progressives wanted to see on a stage at the DNC, instead of a Palestinian woman who deserved to be there.
Too many Republicans, overall, in Harris's campaign. I'm sure that turned off a lot of liberals.
Horrible. My point was Harris would have done better if she would have seemed more progressive to her actual base. Many in her base abandoned her because she was hanging around with Republicans and 2) she embraced Biden's policy on Gaza. HUGE mistakes. Democratic women did not want to see her hanging out with Liz Cheney, or any Republicans. Really avoidable disaster, if she had stuck with her party's Democratic values instead of embracing so many Republicans. Do you think Black men wanted to see the leader of the Democratic Party holding hands with Liz fracking' Cheney?
The closer to the election the more damage and destruction in Gaza , I believe Biden was purposely helping Kamala lose , I did see Kamala and DNC purposely ignored the Arab people and their concerns , She disrespected and dismissed them at every turn and opportunity .
Maybe the culture has something to do with half of America preferring to be controlled by a spiteful idiot.
No other country in the world would want that sort of obvious dangerous fool in power.
There's the gun culture, The fast food culture. junk food will change the way you think.
The digital culture,
Musk just won the election for trump.
No Dude. DNC lost this. Trump won by being anti war.
He's not anti-war in fact, but yeah, convincing people of that really helped him.
Trumps celebration speech said he will end wars. He can be completely lying that's true. But somehow most people think he will end it. Trumps corrupt and crude sure. But he's not a war monger like DNC.
That's all true but he convinced voters of it, and that's all that matters. Harris seemed far too pro-gun and pro-war.
I disagree that Elon won it for Trump but he sure helped But Democrats seem to run bad campaigns lately and her campaign was just not good enough. Her embrace of Israel's wars was a massive mistake.
We all saw this coming, right?
Harris was in a damned if you do and damned if you don’t position. So she didn’t and lost.
I understand the unhappiness in the Muslim community but now we and they have Trump. We’ll all get to see what happens here and in Europe, Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic States,Taiwan etc etc. and without doubt Israel will go on without hindrance. Jared will likely get his beachside condos in Gaza and maybe Trump his hotel in Moscow. Not a good outcome for America.
We just elected least thoughtful president and vice president in history whose four years may destroy democracy and the lives of gay people, African Americans, women, Jews, Latinos, Haitians and Muslims as well as undermine science, the environment, public education, and the separation of church and state. And we’ll all get to watch.
Yep every vote counted and in the end we all did this.
She just could not separate herself from Biden.
Biden would have lost worse, but of course his VP wasn't going to win either. She could not break with her own administration. Democrats should have seen that coming.
Asked to choose between the Rapist and the Prosecutor America chose the former because…?
Welcome to the corporate States of America
MM
I can’t help thinking that every time I saw a Trump supporter interviewed
I saw a profoundly stupid individual explaining rubbish
Someone not even capable of thinking of anything much
Let alone Israel
Honest question: does the Uncommitted Movement see this as a win?
They love it.
wow… fuck
Id say most of the people who voted for Trump
Wouldn't be aware of the Gaza Holocaust
Of course they were aware of it. it's all over social media. It's everywhere.
Don’t kid yourself they love it. Probably half or more of Trump’s support come from the christian right. All those ministers preaching vote for Trump and the Catholic Church benignly supporting evil tied are together by the abortion issue. Meanwhile evangelicals and other “true believers” a significant part of this group believe in the bat-shit crazy notion of the rapture and they need Jews in Israel to facilitate it. Yes, people really really believe this stuff.
Our talking in tongues current Speaker of the House is one of those true believers. And these folks are all in on Israel existing and dominating the Middle East. Not good for Jews, for the Muslim people in the area and not good for America.
It’s All in Gods Hands
Actually She said in a speech , She had a voice in every important issue and would not do anything different , Biden helped her lose by his unhinged inhumane actions in Gaza and She hurt herself by standing next to him
She had no choice. It was her own administration. She was literally stuck there.
It was her choice , She said she was involved with Biden decisions , sending 2 -3 thousand lb bombs to drop on cloth tents with women and children , burning to death , She also said She would not do anything different than Biden . This is what she showed herself , if they say it out loud without shame or humanity, You should believe them