Amid the outrage over Hasan Piker’s remarks, a Jewish professor of Israel studies at UCLA argues that it’s important to acknowledge how Israel’s actions fuel a lot of the anger directed at Jews.
Good piece, but in the last paragraph, the writer makes a distinction between his idea and Hasan's Piker's recent remarks.. then he gives a link that shows Hasan Piker's comment is very similar to what he says.
Waxman writes: "What I am advocating is the need to draw distinctions between Jews and Israel and between Judaism and Zionism. Blurring these distinctions...does not protect Jews; it endangers them."
This is nearly exactly what Hasan Piker says: "..this connection between Israel and Zionism that is expressed over and over again through a lot of those Jewish institutions...is teach people that Jews are monolithic. And this is ..a very dangerous mode of propaganda".
They are both saying something very similar. The difference is Waxman is putting the responsibility to differentiate on others, while Piker is focusing on the Jewish community. They both have a point.
Waxman really doesn't address that the 'conflation' of Jewish identity with Zionism and Israel is very often (I would argue, most often) pushed by those who support Israel's actions, and who then use this conflation to label anyone who criticizes Israel or Zionism as antisemitic.
Of course there are plenty in the US who are not at all Jewish but vehemently support Israel and call themselves Zionists, and there are many critics of Israel's actions that are Jewish, as Waxman points out. But his argument lacks the point that there are indeed many self-identified 'Jewish institutions' that are strongly pro-Israel and pro-Zionism, and use that conflation to attack any critics. AIPAC, the modern ADL. the AJC, and the Jewish Federations of North America are just a few examples.
To be clear, none of that should suggest violence against anyone is justified by any association. But I don't think the writer is so far apart of Piker as he claims..the 'conflation' he writes of is constantly weaponized by Israel's defenders, to the detriment of the Jewish people, and even more to the victims of Israel's violence. That was Piker's point.
Good grief! What a lot of confused double speak-- this but also that, this but not that-- and the final return to the self serving canard: Jews' "attachment" to Israel is just fine and dandy! WHY???? Hasan Piker is correct: Jewish people everywhere MUST disavow allegiance to Israel which has UNAMBIGUOUSLY revealed itself to be a genocidal apartheid CRIMINAL state! Why should anyone be allowed to feel any allegiance to outright evil? Thats plain crazy
You don’t use principle- you just slaughter innocent children because that’s simply what you believe is your right to do, and then punish anyone that says differently. You enjoy it. And you use my tax dollars to do so.
And no one believes that human shield nonsense. It’s your justification to commit genocide.
The key difference here is that Iran and Muslim states aren't actively inserting themselves into American politics. My old alma mater? They had a few completely peaceful Gaza protests and the university president (in consultation with Biden's DoE) overnight banned assemblies in places students had been meeting for generations. They then posted a sniper on the roof of the student union building. These people signaled they were willing to go full Kent State over Gaza. No such equivalent for Muslim countries.
AIPAC is openly supporting outright election deniers so long as they give a blank check to America. That's treasonous and extremely damaging. No such equivalent for Muslim-affiliated groups. Israel is freely murdering US citizens and bombing US allies. No such equivalent for Muslim states--at least not before we punched first. When health insurance was murdering my family, I called my congresspeople over years begging for help. Didn't get a single call back. Meanwhile all of them were talking up the importance of giving infinite weapons money to Israel. No such equivalent for Muslim countries.
Israel is rapidly becoming the Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany of our time. Maybe a few Muslim organizations would do that if they could. But they aren't, and Israel is right now in real time in front of us.
My family is Japanese-American and I think American Jews are increasingly in a painful spot reminiscent of Japanese-Americans. Can you think of how much worse anti-Japanese sentiment and discrimination would've been if the Japanese-American political establishment were prancing around telling other Americans that we all had to be loyal to Imperial Japan, that we had to use our taxpayer funds to give them everything they wanted while undermining America, enslaving Korea, and genociding China? If prominent Japanese-Americans were committing mass treason on behalf of a foreign state and it was so normalized in our political class that they were untouchable despite their crimes?
I couldn't read past your first statement, which is profoundly untrue. Muslim states have over 500 foreign registered lobbyists in the US, and these states spend over $16B annually on American Universities.
Yes. As foreign registered lobbyists. They're there and we can argue about money in politics. But the difference is incomparable. Far more passive. While people were literally getting fired, arrested, or threatened with violence for criticizing Israel. Please, tell me when someone was arrested for criticizing Iran. Please, tell me when praising Iran onstage and pledging loyalty was a litmus test for getting support in a primary.
And I'm sorry, but if you're not willing to even read the argument then I'm not sure how anyone can engage with you or treat you as good faith here.
Glad you can admit you were wrong. When someone starts with blatantly false information, why would one bother to go any further and listen to what else they have to say?
Rather than stating generic claims, provide specific examples, as I'm not going to second-guess how you arrived at your point of view.
This is what I wrote: "The key difference here is that Iran and Muslim states aren't ACTIVELY inserting themselves into American politics."
I stand by it. It's passive compared to what Israel is doing. Israel is actively inserting itself into American politics in a way we've never seen from any other foreign country after the British.
Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah are not armed resistance groups. Hamas founding charter contains acts of genocide and antisemitic language and an Islamist claim to supremacy over all of "Palestine.' For its entire history, it has deliberately targeted, murdered, and terrorized Jewish civilians. That's not a resistance force. On October 7, it carried out exactly the kind of mass slaughter, rape, torture, and hostage-taking that its ideology had long threatened, which one can only conclude were genocidal actions.
Yet these facts are often treated as background noise rather than as essential evidence when assessing Israel’s intent. No legal or moral principle requires Jews to accept murder, kidnapping, rockets, or another Oct. 7 because Hamas hides behind civilians. Israel has obligations under the laws of war, and civilian deaths demand scrutiny and accountability. But Hamas’s use of civilians, hospitals, schools, and neighborhoods as cover does not erase Israel’s right to defend its people or dismantle an openly genocidal terrorist movement.
No, I believe that two people both have rights to live side-by-side in peace.
The issue is that there is now legal or moral principle that requires Jews to sacrifice their own lives when armed Islamist terrorists openly seek their annihilation, and these terrorists use civilian areas, infrastructure, and populations as shields. Civilian deaths are tragic and absolutely must be minimized. But Hamas’s decision to embed itself among civilians and use them as human shields does not erase Israel’s right to defend its people.
Are you serious ??? Hamas "embeds itself among civilians and uses them as human shields"????? You cant see how Islamophobic and plain ridiculous this sounds? Everyone whose territory and homes are invaded and children killed and imprisoned and men n women raped and brutalized as Palestinians have been since the inception of Israel has aright to selfdefense! Hamas is a resistance group voted in by Gazans as legitimate representative with the help of Israel! People living in the largest open air concentration campin the world have every right to resist!
Israel has clearly stated that there will never be a Palestinian state & they also have separate laws (& roads & services even!) for Palestinians.
While innocent people in Gaza, living in tents, having their water & food supplies cut off, Israeli snipers play games targeting little children, shooting them in the head & the Israeli Air Force systematically reduces buildings into rubble.
Your statement “I believe that two people both have rights to live side-by-side in peace” is obviously a lie.
Yeah- and judging from Israel’s actions since, can anyone seriously blame Hamas and Hesbollah from having those opinions and goals? All that you’ve done is prove them right.
You people have leveled 85% of buildings in Gaza. You’ve killed tens of thousands of children systematically. You’re doing the same in Southern Lebanon, and well on your way in the West Bank.
Palestinian militias and their Arab allies have targeted and murdered Jews since at least 1920, well before Israel existed. So, yes, Palestinian and Arab leaders in Hamas and Hezbollah bear most of the responsiblity for the civilian deaths. Imagine what a state of Palestine could have achieved by now if they took the opportunity to build their own country in 1948, rather than starting wars.
No, the vast majority then as now is done by Jews. It’s a tradition. So again- given the behavior that Israel has done in the aftermath of October 7, can they honestly be blamed that much for thinking what they do?
I’ve actually heard the opposite - that Jews & Palestinians lived side by side peacefully until Israeli terrorists started stealing their lands & massacring them.
I image you won’t want to wstch the following history of Israeli atrocities:
That is categorically false. Iran's legal system explicitly classifies people by religion and applies different personal-status rules, religious freedoms, restrictions, and in some cases, criminal-law consequences according to religious identity.
We’ve all been forced to ad nauseam, since 1979. On the other hand, it’s often Jews who are at the forefront of inciting Islamophobia, but that seems to incur no social penalty.
Do you want examples from my personal life, like when some elderly Jewish lady called me “a dirty little Arab boy” (I was 9 at the time). I have a ton of those, mostly from Jews but I don’t think that is what you are interested in?? Let me know if I am incorrect.
As for organizations: look at the ADL. They are almost daily inciting anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia. They openly cheerlead the ongoing attempt to deport Mahmoud Khalil. Jonathan Greenblatt stated that my keffiyeh is an antisemitic symbol (but apparently Elon Musk’s Nazi salute was kosher). Whatever…
I'm sorry that happened to you. For similar reasons, I chose long ago not to have any visible adornment that identified me as Jewish. It wasn't safe to do so. My son, a high school science teacher, last year had to deal with almost daily issues of antisemitism coming from other teachers.
I don't support everything the ADL does, but their primary mission is to stop anti-semitism, and today, a large percentage of that is coming from Muslim communities. To be clear, this doesn't mean all Muslims, but a vocal few. I've been called a Zionist Pig a few times. And because my views also lean more progressive, I've also been called a "Kappo" by other Jews.
I still am optimistic that Jews and Palestinians can live side-by-side in peace, under their own self-determination.
The ADL long ago ceased any meaningful civil rights work. Their primary mission is to promotion of Israel, and suppression of any expression of speech, sympathy or solidarity with the Palestinian people. Their tools are false accusations of antisemitism, and incitement of anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia. The same is true of nearly all American Jewish organizations.
For most but not all Jews of my generation, anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia are core components of their identity as Jews. It explains the rabid behavior which is illustrated on this comment thread. It’s similar to the broader malaise of anti-blackness/whiteness that is widespread in our society, but it is more specific and more intense. It’s easier to hate on Palestinians, then it is to keep kosher or study Jewish theology or history. Zionism, or rather the belief in Jewish supremacy, have become a surrogate to Judaism.
Ben Gvir, Smoltrich, Bibi, and your average Israeli on the street. They not only incite Islamophobia- they actively cheer on dehumanization and genocide.
They will, in all likelyhood will, lose in the Israeli election in October. But let's talk about the unelected leaders of Iran, the Ayatollah, or Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya, or of Hezbollah, Naim Qassem, who fund terrorism.
Doesn’t matter if they lose or not- even your left leaning Israelis see zero problem with exterminating people based on their ethnicity. Naftali Bennet today was on camera saying that the problem was lack of more propaganda.
No one in our lifetime has seen any nation where the average citizen is so fixated on genocide. So again- is Hamas really that wrong considering this?
That’s specifically what was being asked of Muslims after October 7. And that day was an average weekday night for Israel’s level of killing civilians.
Let's correct that misinformation. It was on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, it was Simchat Torah, the 3rd most important Jewish Holiday, and it was within a day of the 50th Anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. There is nothing ordinary about that day. And it was the single largest number of Jews murdered since the Holocaust.
There was been single weeks where Israel murdered far, far more people than what was done on October 7. So stop with that nonsense. Did you think about what Muslim holiday it was then? How many did you kill through Ramadan this year alone?
When the need is to defeat a genocidal enemy such as Hamas that uses their own children as human shields and suicide bombers, the death count doesn't is sadly not relevant. No legal or moral principle says Jews must sacrifice their own lives to Hamas terrorists, even when they use humand shield. That's what is sadly true.
The right wing Heritage Foundation after getting Project 2025 off to a running start with Cheeto’s Nazi regime with Vought in charge, has now begun a new Esther project. This one is to use antisemitism as a tool to go after political opponents.
The first step is to find Jewish people who have been antisemitic targets which is why DOJ is asking the UPenn for names of Jewish faculty. Next is to use these found antisemites and designate them as members of the Hamas Support Network(HSN) which is deemed as a complex web of entities, individuals, and activities that span both its primary area of operation in Gaza and extends globally.
In exercising free speech in opposition to the genocidal atrocities in Gaza in university settings or in public forums, exploiting antisemitism as a trope can get you labeled as a supporter of the HSN.
The final step in Project Esther is to label anyone exercising free speech about matters in Gaza as part of a terrorist organization. This will get your visas revoked according to Cheeto’s secretary of state Hermann Goring(aka Rubio). Universities will have to watch their student populations carefully. Social media will be monitored and weaponized.
To their credit several Jewish organizations have pushed back against this attack on free speech using antisemitism as a Nazi weapon, seeing it for what it is. DOJ lost their case with UPenn over turning over Jewish faculty names.
This entire thesis seems dangerously like the All Lives Matter pathetic argument here in the USA. All Lives are NOT currently in collective peril. As the metaphor goes, when a house is actually on fire it’s ridiculous (and deathly) to say we need to worry about every house on the block equally. Israel is killing people (and has been since its establishment) with impunity on and across pretty much every border it theoretically has. When folks are still going on exciting and safe vacations in Israel while entire populations within kilometers are being annihilated, denied human rights, targeted by AI weapons, have no access to legal protections, no protection afforded by the entire rest of the world… we’re supposed to worry about people who proudly connect themselves with Israel having their feelings hurt?
Shortly after October 7th an acquaintance of mine took her 8 year old daughter on vacation to Israel for Chanukah. And yesterday a friend and neighbour told me her 92 year old neighbour travels to Israel every year and will be going soon.
While Israel is flattening towns, breaking up roadways, etc etc (you all know the massive list of deplorable actions) commercial airlines’ routes are not disrupted into and out of Israel???? I guess that’s what they mean by their right to exist. They can host tourists while anyone who hinders their expansion of territory or resources becomes a refugee and buries their family members’ remaining body parts.
What’s the Islamic state? If synagogues don’t want to be associated with Israel they shouldn’t have the flag in their synagogue. Most but not all Jews in the United States support Israel and you can see it clearly on every pro Israel post on social media. I can go on the World Surf League Instagram page and on every post about the female Israeli surfer you will see the most demented comments from Jews and Israelis if the female surfer is criticized. The reality is that Zionists are the most evil bigots in the world. Including Jewish ones. Any criticism of them or their government is responded to with the most hateful and disgusting rhetoric. They’re very proud to be killing innocent people and they are not one bit afraid of telling you.
All of a sudden realized that associating with the most despised nation on earth might not be the best idea. Did it take German Americans four years of WW2 to realize that being a Nazi was not the best thing for them?
American Jews and Jewish associations in the US, should call Israel out for what it is, a terrorist state who is committing genocide and ethnic cleansing. I am not antisemitic; I hate the Israeli government. Netanyahu and his regime should face a firing squad for what they're doing to the Palestinian and Lebanese people. What I fail to understand is why some American Jewish organizations, and some American Jews, believe that Israel is also representative of their country, it's not, they're Americans, not Israeli's. Violence in any form is unacceptable; I will certainly never understand violence targeted against a specific group of people. It would probably lessen threats against the Jewish community, if their organizations disassociated themselves from Israel, and made it clear that it is not representative of the American Jewish population. But something tells me, that will never happen.
I could not agree with you more. The modern State of Israel - and, in particular, Netanyahu and his governing regime - have been for some time and continue to be - completely "off the charts" out of control with a terrible bloodlust and growing level of inhumanity acted day in and day out with horrible and terrifying results. Having been condemned for this worldwide, in the rooms of the ICC and in the Halls of the UN, they still continue unabated. One thing makes this possible, that being that the United States government overall will not vote or stand against them and continues to fund and arm them. This of course makes us complicit in the horrors they perpetrate. If we want to feel clean again, this must change.
Israel's behavior is absolutely the cause of the rise in anti-semetism. Israel is a Jewish state, and non-Jews are 2nd class citizens, for pete's sake!!! Israel is not seriously dealing with the anti-Christian attacks of nuns & clergy in Jerusalem, is allowing the rabid settlers to violently attack the only Christian village remaining in the West Bank and destroy olive trees. And, Israel is a country whose (Jewish) citizens continue to allow their government to support & expand illegal settlement and violent settlers in the West Bank, engage in genocide in Gaza, push their 'greater Israel' and ethnic-cleansing ideology, and as part of it, are engaged in the same destruction and violence in Southern Lebanon. It seems to me that American Jews could hold Israel's (and AIPAC's) feet to the fire if they really are concerned about anti-semetism.
The USA should withdraw ALL military aid to this pariah, apartheid state NOW. Let it stand on its own.
"What I am advocating is the need to draw distinctions between Jews and Israel and between Judaism and Zionism. Blurring these distinctions, as Judge McFadden did in his recent ruling and as Jewish establishment organizations and the Israeli state do, does not protect Jews; it endangers them."
I agree completely. My last English ancestor (my great-grandmother) left in the 1880s, but I still feel an attachment to the place. But I am not responsible for what England may do, nor are they responsible for my actions.
Ali could have convicted of a simple assault charge, but was not. The the addition of a Federal antisemitic discrimination charge was overkill and Judge McFadden should have recognized that.
The notion that applying a religious symbol on a flag automatically makes it representative of a religion (or a 'race' as the judge puts it) - would make any perceived desecration or violation of many of the world's flags an act of religious discrimination.
All the flags of the very-Christian Scandinavian states have a Christian cross. So does the flag of England...many flags from the Caribbean and South America have crosses and other purposeful Christian symbols. So do many US state flags..the Union jack...Quebec..Northern Ireland, Scotland...
All of these flags were made to express a Christian 'identity and peoplehood'.
I love and admire anti-Zionist Jews. Only one friend of my generation falls into that category, and I have a renewed appreciation of her lonely heroism. But there is an emerging discourse on the left about carefully distinguishing between Jews / Judaism vs Zionism. But that cannot be absolute, because it 1.) is not fucking true, and 2.) has the effect of shielding the Jewish community collectively from accountability for its racist and sometimes fascist behavior. As Arab and Muslim Americans, we are often the recipients of racist abuse (doxxing, expulsion from colleges, employment discrimination, censorship) that is inflicted upon us by Jewish Zionists. Our so called allies are silent 🤫 lest they be accused of “antisemitism”. It’s time to break the silence.
The American Jewish community is disproportionately responsible for the ongoing genocide in Gaza, and Southern Lebanon, which has now spread to the West Bank. It could not have happened without them. The Jewish community raises hundreds of millions annually to purchase political control of Congress and the Executive Branch - they just dropped between $30-$60 million on the Senate primary in Michigan. They have raised billions of the last few decades. That doesn’t even begin to count direct community support for the Israeli state or settlements on the West Bank. Mazel Tov, it’s an impressively awful accomplishment. Was there a comparable investment by German Americans on Germany’s behalf in the 1930’s and 1940’s?
I don’t blame individuals unless they are personally complicit in immoral acts. But I hold the American Jewish community, and particularly its institutions, collectively responsible for the genocide in the same way Jews might have held Germany responsible in 1946. We have to acknowledge hard truths in order to be able to change things in the future.
Jews should “dissociate from Israel” not to “feel safe” but because it is the right thing to do. Likewise, Jews, if they don’t revere the Torah or the characters Yahweh or Moses, should “dissociate” from *Judaism*. They should stop identifying as Jews. One of the best ways to undermine the pernicious myth that there is a “Jewish race”, which is the bedrock of antisemitism, is for “secular Jews” to stop identifying as Jews simply because some of their ancestors were Jewish.
Some of my ancestors were Christian, but I don’t believe Yahweh exists, and I believe Jesus and Yahweh are unethical characters—so I don’t identify as Christian. People with ancestors who were Jewish should be doing the same thing if they don’t believe Yahweh exists and don’t believe Yahweh and Moses are ethical characters. Otherwise they enable the myth that Jews can be identified by who their ancestors were, the basis of Nazi anti-Semitic law.
Anti-Judaism, just like anti Zionism, is *not* antisemitism. Just like anti Christianity is not racism. And anti Islam is not racism. And anti Scientology is not racism. And anti KKK is not racism. “Religious” groups are not races; they are not “ethnicities”; neither are “ethnoreligions” or any other bs rhetoric that metaphysically ties individuals to cults their parents were in; they are voluntary social collectives that should not receive the same sort of moral immunities as racial groups. Individuals have a choice to belong to them, and that choice is an appropriate subject of moral evaluation.
Classifying anti Judaism as antisemitism is irrational and itself unethical, as it shields a religion that currently is carrying out an ethnic cleansing campaign for territory that its literature sanctifies the genocidal conquest of. The vast majority of Jews and Jewish institutions believe that Israel should be a “Jewish state”, and that is perfectly a logical expression of the Torah and what it teaches. Jews who do not believe that a pseudo ethnostate is ethical should leave the social collective and not try to defend its reputation and slander its detractors as racists. The anti Zionist Jews today are as ridiculous as an anti racist Klansman. Just leave the Klan. Find a new “people.”
The distinctions evaluated in the article are, in my mind, exceedingly important and well thought out and written. Drawing on my own experience, going back decades ago, there were at times situations in which I would disagree with and criticize the Israeli government - not Jews and not Israeli citizens. I can't say always, but very frequently, I would be accused of anti-Semitism which I knew was absolutely not the case. This could be infuriating, as it could be an answer to every criticism or disagreement I put forth, serving as a "cut off" and effectively ending further debate. Sometimes, especially in these days of so much excess by the Israeli government and the IDF, expressing ones thoughts and opinions contrary to those actions and policies can feel like walking through a minefield. However, in the proper venues and in communicating with my elected representatives, I cannot, in good conscience, stay silent either. Silence belongs to the dead, not the living.
Good piece, but in the last paragraph, the writer makes a distinction between his idea and Hasan's Piker's recent remarks.. then he gives a link that shows Hasan Piker's comment is very similar to what he says.
Waxman writes: "What I am advocating is the need to draw distinctions between Jews and Israel and between Judaism and Zionism. Blurring these distinctions...does not protect Jews; it endangers them."
This is nearly exactly what Hasan Piker says: "..this connection between Israel and Zionism that is expressed over and over again through a lot of those Jewish institutions...is teach people that Jews are monolithic. And this is ..a very dangerous mode of propaganda".
They are both saying something very similar. The difference is Waxman is putting the responsibility to differentiate on others, while Piker is focusing on the Jewish community. They both have a point.
Waxman really doesn't address that the 'conflation' of Jewish identity with Zionism and Israel is very often (I would argue, most often) pushed by those who support Israel's actions, and who then use this conflation to label anyone who criticizes Israel or Zionism as antisemitic.
Of course there are plenty in the US who are not at all Jewish but vehemently support Israel and call themselves Zionists, and there are many critics of Israel's actions that are Jewish, as Waxman points out. But his argument lacks the point that there are indeed many self-identified 'Jewish institutions' that are strongly pro-Israel and pro-Zionism, and use that conflation to attack any critics. AIPAC, the modern ADL. the AJC, and the Jewish Federations of North America are just a few examples.
To be clear, none of that should suggest violence against anyone is justified by any association. But I don't think the writer is so far apart of Piker as he claims..the 'conflation' he writes of is constantly weaponized by Israel's defenders, to the detriment of the Jewish people, and even more to the victims of Israel's violence. That was Piker's point.
I think a great addendum to your comment is a very meticulous rebuttal by Tariq Ackinckulous that assesses the data that Waxman uses:
https://tariqacknickulous.substack.com/p/debunking-zeteos-article-conflating
I encourage people read it and share it.
Zeteo should voluntarily publish it to redeem the embarrassment of publishing Waxman’s hasbara.
Good grief! What a lot of confused double speak-- this but also that, this but not that-- and the final return to the self serving canard: Jews' "attachment" to Israel is just fine and dandy! WHY???? Hasan Piker is correct: Jewish people everywhere MUST disavow allegiance to Israel which has UNAMBIGUOUSLY revealed itself to be a genocidal apartheid CRIMINAL state! Why should anyone be allowed to feel any allegiance to outright evil? Thats plain crazy
You don’t use principle- you just slaughter innocent children because that’s simply what you believe is your right to do, and then punish anyone that says differently. You enjoy it. And you use my tax dollars to do so.
And no one believes that human shield nonsense. It’s your justification to commit genocide.
By your logic, then every Muslim MUST disavow Iran, and its proxies Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis
The key difference here is that Iran and Muslim states aren't actively inserting themselves into American politics. My old alma mater? They had a few completely peaceful Gaza protests and the university president (in consultation with Biden's DoE) overnight banned assemblies in places students had been meeting for generations. They then posted a sniper on the roof of the student union building. These people signaled they were willing to go full Kent State over Gaza. No such equivalent for Muslim countries.
AIPAC is openly supporting outright election deniers so long as they give a blank check to America. That's treasonous and extremely damaging. No such equivalent for Muslim-affiliated groups. Israel is freely murdering US citizens and bombing US allies. No such equivalent for Muslim states--at least not before we punched first. When health insurance was murdering my family, I called my congresspeople over years begging for help. Didn't get a single call back. Meanwhile all of them were talking up the importance of giving infinite weapons money to Israel. No such equivalent for Muslim countries.
Israel is rapidly becoming the Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany of our time. Maybe a few Muslim organizations would do that if they could. But they aren't, and Israel is right now in real time in front of us.
My family is Japanese-American and I think American Jews are increasingly in a painful spot reminiscent of Japanese-Americans. Can you think of how much worse anti-Japanese sentiment and discrimination would've been if the Japanese-American political establishment were prancing around telling other Americans that we all had to be loyal to Imperial Japan, that we had to use our taxpayer funds to give them everything they wanted while undermining America, enslaving Korea, and genociding China? If prominent Japanese-Americans were committing mass treason on behalf of a foreign state and it was so normalized in our political class that they were untouchable despite their crimes?
I couldn't read past your first statement, which is profoundly untrue. Muslim states have over 500 foreign registered lobbyists in the US, and these states spend over $16B annually on American Universities.
Yes. As foreign registered lobbyists. They're there and we can argue about money in politics. But the difference is incomparable. Far more passive. While people were literally getting fired, arrested, or threatened with violence for criticizing Israel. Please, tell me when someone was arrested for criticizing Iran. Please, tell me when praising Iran onstage and pledging loyalty was a litmus test for getting support in a primary.
And I'm sorry, but if you're not willing to even read the argument then I'm not sure how anyone can engage with you or treat you as good faith here.
Glad you can admit you were wrong. When someone starts with blatantly false information, why would one bother to go any further and listen to what else they have to say?
Rather than stating generic claims, provide specific examples, as I'm not going to second-guess how you arrived at your point of view.
This is what I wrote: "The key difference here is that Iran and Muslim states aren't ACTIVELY inserting themselves into American politics."
I stand by it. It's passive compared to what Israel is doing. Israel is actively inserting itself into American politics in a way we've never seen from any other foreign country after the British.
And I provided paragraphs of specific examples.
Israel is committing atrocities. Those groups you mention are fighting for their freedom from Israeli atrocities.
Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah are not armed resistance groups. Hamas founding charter contains acts of genocide and antisemitic language and an Islamist claim to supremacy over all of "Palestine.' For its entire history, it has deliberately targeted, murdered, and terrorized Jewish civilians. That's not a resistance force. On October 7, it carried out exactly the kind of mass slaughter, rape, torture, and hostage-taking that its ideology had long threatened, which one can only conclude were genocidal actions.
Yet these facts are often treated as background noise rather than as essential evidence when assessing Israel’s intent. No legal or moral principle requires Jews to accept murder, kidnapping, rockets, or another Oct. 7 because Hamas hides behind civilians. Israel has obligations under the laws of war, and civilian deaths demand scrutiny and accountability. But Hamas’s use of civilians, hospitals, schools, and neighborhoods as cover does not erase Israel’s right to defend its people or dismantle an openly genocidal terrorist movement.
I see you’ve drunk the Zionist kool-aid. Israel is becoming a pariah state if not there already.
No, I believe that two people both have rights to live side-by-side in peace.
The issue is that there is now legal or moral principle that requires Jews to sacrifice their own lives when armed Islamist terrorists openly seek their annihilation, and these terrorists use civilian areas, infrastructure, and populations as shields. Civilian deaths are tragic and absolutely must be minimized. But Hamas’s decision to embed itself among civilians and use them as human shields does not erase Israel’s right to defend its people.
Are you serious ??? Hamas "embeds itself among civilians and uses them as human shields"????? You cant see how Islamophobic and plain ridiculous this sounds? Everyone whose territory and homes are invaded and children killed and imprisoned and men n women raped and brutalized as Palestinians have been since the inception of Israel has aright to selfdefense! Hamas is a resistance group voted in by Gazans as legitimate representative with the help of Israel! People living in the largest open air concentration campin the world have every right to resist!
Israel has clearly stated that there will never be a Palestinian state & they also have separate laws (& roads & services even!) for Palestinians.
While innocent people in Gaza, living in tents, having their water & food supplies cut off, Israeli snipers play games targeting little children, shooting them in the head & the Israeli Air Force systematically reduces buildings into rubble.
Your statement “I believe that two people both have rights to live side-by-side in peace” is obviously a lie.
Jay is back doing his Zio propaganda. How do you sleep with yourself at night Jay? Do you have any friends or only other paid Zio trolls to talk to?
Yeah- and judging from Israel’s actions since, can anyone seriously blame Hamas and Hesbollah from having those opinions and goals? All that you’ve done is prove them right.
You people have leveled 85% of buildings in Gaza. You’ve killed tens of thousands of children systematically. You’re doing the same in Southern Lebanon, and well on your way in the West Bank.
Palestinian militias and their Arab allies have targeted and murdered Jews since at least 1920, well before Israel existed. So, yes, Palestinian and Arab leaders in Hamas and Hezbollah bear most of the responsiblity for the civilian deaths. Imagine what a state of Palestine could have achieved by now if they took the opportunity to build their own country in 1948, rather than starting wars.
No, the vast majority then as now is done by Jews. It’s a tradition. So again- given the behavior that Israel has done in the aftermath of October 7, can they honestly be blamed that much for thinking what they do?
All that Israel has done is prove them correct.
I’ve actually heard the opposite - that Jews & Palestinians lived side by side peacefully until Israeli terrorists started stealing their lands & massacring them.
I image you won’t want to wstch the following history of Israeli atrocities:
https://youtu.be/Bwy-Rf15UIs?si=oMQMCPbEsTmHjoDU
Iran doesn’t have a separate legal system, Justice system and citizenship rules based on what religion you follow.
That is categorically false. Iran's legal system explicitly classifies people by religion and applies different personal-status rules, religious freedoms, restrictions, and in some cases, criminal-law consequences according to religious identity.
We’ve all been forced to ad nauseam, since 1979. On the other hand, it’s often Jews who are at the forefront of inciting Islamophobia, but that seems to incur no social penalty.
Show me evidence that supports your opinion
Do you want examples from my personal life, like when some elderly Jewish lady called me “a dirty little Arab boy” (I was 9 at the time). I have a ton of those, mostly from Jews but I don’t think that is what you are interested in?? Let me know if I am incorrect.
As for organizations: look at the ADL. They are almost daily inciting anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia. They openly cheerlead the ongoing attempt to deport Mahmoud Khalil. Jonathan Greenblatt stated that my keffiyeh is an antisemitic symbol (but apparently Elon Musk’s Nazi salute was kosher). Whatever…
I'm sorry that happened to you. For similar reasons, I chose long ago not to have any visible adornment that identified me as Jewish. It wasn't safe to do so. My son, a high school science teacher, last year had to deal with almost daily issues of antisemitism coming from other teachers.
I don't support everything the ADL does, but their primary mission is to stop anti-semitism, and today, a large percentage of that is coming from Muslim communities. To be clear, this doesn't mean all Muslims, but a vocal few. I've been called a Zionist Pig a few times. And because my views also lean more progressive, I've also been called a "Kappo" by other Jews.
I still am optimistic that Jews and Palestinians can live side-by-side in peace, under their own self-determination.
The ADL long ago ceased any meaningful civil rights work. Their primary mission is to promotion of Israel, and suppression of any expression of speech, sympathy or solidarity with the Palestinian people. Their tools are false accusations of antisemitism, and incitement of anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia. The same is true of nearly all American Jewish organizations.
For most but not all Jews of my generation, anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia are core components of their identity as Jews. It explains the rabid behavior which is illustrated on this comment thread. It’s similar to the broader malaise of anti-blackness/whiteness that is widespread in our society, but it is more specific and more intense. It’s easier to hate on Palestinians, then it is to keep kosher or study Jewish theology or history. Zionism, or rather the belief in Jewish supremacy, have become a surrogate to Judaism.
Ben Gvir, Smoltrich, Bibi, and your average Israeli on the street. They not only incite Islamophobia- they actively cheer on dehumanization and genocide.
They will, in all likelyhood will, lose in the Israeli election in October. But let's talk about the unelected leaders of Iran, the Ayatollah, or Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya, or of Hezbollah, Naim Qassem, who fund terrorism.
Doesn’t matter if they lose or not- even your left leaning Israelis see zero problem with exterminating people based on their ethnicity. Naftali Bennet today was on camera saying that the problem was lack of more propaganda.
No one in our lifetime has seen any nation where the average citizen is so fixated on genocide. So again- is Hamas really that wrong considering this?
That’s specifically what was being asked of Muslims after October 7. And that day was an average weekday night for Israel’s level of killing civilians.
Let's correct that misinformation. It was on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, it was Simchat Torah, the 3rd most important Jewish Holiday, and it was within a day of the 50th Anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. There is nothing ordinary about that day. And it was the single largest number of Jews murdered since the Holocaust.
The largest number of Jews killed since the Holocaust was in Argentina during the dirty war of the military junta in the 1970’s
I was talking about Oct. 7th. That was the deadliest single day for Jews since the Holocaust.
Great point. But it was too inconvenient for Israel to genocide Argentines, plus they’re white.
Wow, a racist in our midst.
There was been single weeks where Israel murdered far, far more people than what was done on October 7. So stop with that nonsense. Did you think about what Muslim holiday it was then? How many did you kill through Ramadan this year alone?
Doesn’t matter, because you enjoyed it.
When the need is to defeat a genocidal enemy such as Hamas that uses their own children as human shields and suicide bombers, the death count doesn't is sadly not relevant. No legal or moral principle says Jews must sacrifice their own lives to Hamas terrorists, even when they use humand shield. That's what is sadly true.
That probably sounded better in its original German. Somethings are lost in translation
I’m okay with that 👍🏽
Well, yeah, but how do you prevent "feelings of allegiance"? ICE seems to have cornered that market already. See my later comment.
Project Esther
The right wing Heritage Foundation after getting Project 2025 off to a running start with Cheeto’s Nazi regime with Vought in charge, has now begun a new Esther project. This one is to use antisemitism as a tool to go after political opponents.
The first step is to find Jewish people who have been antisemitic targets which is why DOJ is asking the UPenn for names of Jewish faculty. Next is to use these found antisemites and designate them as members of the Hamas Support Network(HSN) which is deemed as a complex web of entities, individuals, and activities that span both its primary area of operation in Gaza and extends globally.
In exercising free speech in opposition to the genocidal atrocities in Gaza in university settings or in public forums, exploiting antisemitism as a trope can get you labeled as a supporter of the HSN.
The final step in Project Esther is to label anyone exercising free speech about matters in Gaza as part of a terrorist organization. This will get your visas revoked according to Cheeto’s secretary of state Hermann Goring(aka Rubio). Universities will have to watch their student populations carefully. Social media will be monitored and weaponized.
To their credit several Jewish organizations have pushed back against this attack on free speech using antisemitism as a Nazi weapon, seeing it for what it is. DOJ lost their case with UPenn over turning over Jewish faculty names.
This entire thesis seems dangerously like the All Lives Matter pathetic argument here in the USA. All Lives are NOT currently in collective peril. As the metaphor goes, when a house is actually on fire it’s ridiculous (and deathly) to say we need to worry about every house on the block equally. Israel is killing people (and has been since its establishment) with impunity on and across pretty much every border it theoretically has. When folks are still going on exciting and safe vacations in Israel while entire populations within kilometers are being annihilated, denied human rights, targeted by AI weapons, have no access to legal protections, no protection afforded by the entire rest of the world… we’re supposed to worry about people who proudly connect themselves with Israel having their feelings hurt?
Shortly after October 7th an acquaintance of mine took her 8 year old daughter on vacation to Israel for Chanukah. And yesterday a friend and neighbour told me her 92 year old neighbour travels to Israel every year and will be going soon.
While Israel is flattening towns, breaking up roadways, etc etc (you all know the massive list of deplorable actions) commercial airlines’ routes are not disrupted into and out of Israel???? I guess that’s what they mean by their right to exist. They can host tourists while anyone who hinders their expansion of territory or resources becomes a refugee and buries their family members’ remaining body parts.
What’s the Islamic state? If synagogues don’t want to be associated with Israel they shouldn’t have the flag in their synagogue. Most but not all Jews in the United States support Israel and you can see it clearly on every pro Israel post on social media. I can go on the World Surf League Instagram page and on every post about the female Israeli surfer you will see the most demented comments from Jews and Israelis if the female surfer is criticized. The reality is that Zionists are the most evil bigots in the world. Including Jewish ones. Any criticism of them or their government is responded to with the most hateful and disgusting rhetoric. They’re very proud to be killing innocent people and they are not one bit afraid of telling you.
All of a sudden realized that associating with the most despised nation on earth might not be the best idea. Did it take German Americans four years of WW2 to realize that being a Nazi was not the best thing for them?
American Jews and Jewish associations in the US, should call Israel out for what it is, a terrorist state who is committing genocide and ethnic cleansing. I am not antisemitic; I hate the Israeli government. Netanyahu and his regime should face a firing squad for what they're doing to the Palestinian and Lebanese people. What I fail to understand is why some American Jewish organizations, and some American Jews, believe that Israel is also representative of their country, it's not, they're Americans, not Israeli's. Violence in any form is unacceptable; I will certainly never understand violence targeted against a specific group of people. It would probably lessen threats against the Jewish community, if their organizations disassociated themselves from Israel, and made it clear that it is not representative of the American Jewish population. But something tells me, that will never happen.
I'm a Marxist Leninist. Kinda hard to be antisemitic when those two are your heroes.
I absolutely loved your comment and your wit! A well-timed and well placed touch of levity can sometimes do wonders to facilitate discussion.
It's true! I have a great deal of sympathy for Jewish people, and all marginalized people. But that does not excuse the actions of Israel.
I could not agree with you more. The modern State of Israel - and, in particular, Netanyahu and his governing regime - have been for some time and continue to be - completely "off the charts" out of control with a terrible bloodlust and growing level of inhumanity acted day in and day out with horrible and terrifying results. Having been condemned for this worldwide, in the rooms of the ICC and in the Halls of the UN, they still continue unabated. One thing makes this possible, that being that the United States government overall will not vote or stand against them and continues to fund and arm them. This of course makes us complicit in the horrors they perpetrate. If we want to feel clean again, this must change.
Israel's behavior is absolutely the cause of the rise in anti-semetism. Israel is a Jewish state, and non-Jews are 2nd class citizens, for pete's sake!!! Israel is not seriously dealing with the anti-Christian attacks of nuns & clergy in Jerusalem, is allowing the rabid settlers to violently attack the only Christian village remaining in the West Bank and destroy olive trees. And, Israel is a country whose (Jewish) citizens continue to allow their government to support & expand illegal settlement and violent settlers in the West Bank, engage in genocide in Gaza, push their 'greater Israel' and ethnic-cleansing ideology, and as part of it, are engaged in the same destruction and violence in Southern Lebanon. It seems to me that American Jews could hold Israel's (and AIPAC's) feet to the fire if they really are concerned about anti-semetism.
The USA should withdraw ALL military aid to this pariah, apartheid state NOW. Let it stand on its own.
"What I am advocating is the need to draw distinctions between Jews and Israel and between Judaism and Zionism. Blurring these distinctions, as Judge McFadden did in his recent ruling and as Jewish establishment organizations and the Israeli state do, does not protect Jews; it endangers them."
I agree completely. My last English ancestor (my great-grandmother) left in the 1880s, but I still feel an attachment to the place. But I am not responsible for what England may do, nor are they responsible for my actions.
Ali could have convicted of a simple assault charge, but was not. The the addition of a Federal antisemitic discrimination charge was overkill and Judge McFadden should have recognized that.
The notion that applying a religious symbol on a flag automatically makes it representative of a religion (or a 'race' as the judge puts it) - would make any perceived desecration or violation of many of the world's flags an act of religious discrimination.
All the flags of the very-Christian Scandinavian states have a Christian cross. So does the flag of England...many flags from the Caribbean and South America have crosses and other purposeful Christian symbols. So do many US state flags..the Union jack...Quebec..Northern Ireland, Scotland...
All of these flags were made to express a Christian 'identity and peoplehood'.
Stopped reading article when I first saw “Jewish race”. What stupidity!
That comment was a quote from the judge in the relevant court case,. It was not a statement from the writer.
Excellent article; thank you.
I love and admire anti-Zionist Jews. Only one friend of my generation falls into that category, and I have a renewed appreciation of her lonely heroism. But there is an emerging discourse on the left about carefully distinguishing between Jews / Judaism vs Zionism. But that cannot be absolute, because it 1.) is not fucking true, and 2.) has the effect of shielding the Jewish community collectively from accountability for its racist and sometimes fascist behavior. As Arab and Muslim Americans, we are often the recipients of racist abuse (doxxing, expulsion from colleges, employment discrimination, censorship) that is inflicted upon us by Jewish Zionists. Our so called allies are silent 🤫 lest they be accused of “antisemitism”. It’s time to break the silence.
The American Jewish community is disproportionately responsible for the ongoing genocide in Gaza, and Southern Lebanon, which has now spread to the West Bank. It could not have happened without them. The Jewish community raises hundreds of millions annually to purchase political control of Congress and the Executive Branch - they just dropped between $30-$60 million on the Senate primary in Michigan. They have raised billions of the last few decades. That doesn’t even begin to count direct community support for the Israeli state or settlements on the West Bank. Mazel Tov, it’s an impressively awful accomplishment. Was there a comparable investment by German Americans on Germany’s behalf in the 1930’s and 1940’s?
I don’t blame individuals unless they are personally complicit in immoral acts. But I hold the American Jewish community, and particularly its institutions, collectively responsible for the genocide in the same way Jews might have held Germany responsible in 1946. We have to acknowledge hard truths in order to be able to change things in the future.
Jews should “dissociate from Israel” not to “feel safe” but because it is the right thing to do. Likewise, Jews, if they don’t revere the Torah or the characters Yahweh or Moses, should “dissociate” from *Judaism*. They should stop identifying as Jews. One of the best ways to undermine the pernicious myth that there is a “Jewish race”, which is the bedrock of antisemitism, is for “secular Jews” to stop identifying as Jews simply because some of their ancestors were Jewish.
Some of my ancestors were Christian, but I don’t believe Yahweh exists, and I believe Jesus and Yahweh are unethical characters—so I don’t identify as Christian. People with ancestors who were Jewish should be doing the same thing if they don’t believe Yahweh exists and don’t believe Yahweh and Moses are ethical characters. Otherwise they enable the myth that Jews can be identified by who their ancestors were, the basis of Nazi anti-Semitic law.
Anti-Judaism, just like anti Zionism, is *not* antisemitism. Just like anti Christianity is not racism. And anti Islam is not racism. And anti Scientology is not racism. And anti KKK is not racism. “Religious” groups are not races; they are not “ethnicities”; neither are “ethnoreligions” or any other bs rhetoric that metaphysically ties individuals to cults their parents were in; they are voluntary social collectives that should not receive the same sort of moral immunities as racial groups. Individuals have a choice to belong to them, and that choice is an appropriate subject of moral evaluation.
Classifying anti Judaism as antisemitism is irrational and itself unethical, as it shields a religion that currently is carrying out an ethnic cleansing campaign for territory that its literature sanctifies the genocidal conquest of. The vast majority of Jews and Jewish institutions believe that Israel should be a “Jewish state”, and that is perfectly a logical expression of the Torah and what it teaches. Jews who do not believe that a pseudo ethnostate is ethical should leave the social collective and not try to defend its reputation and slander its detractors as racists. The anti Zionist Jews today are as ridiculous as an anti racist Klansman. Just leave the Klan. Find a new “people.”
The distinctions evaluated in the article are, in my mind, exceedingly important and well thought out and written. Drawing on my own experience, going back decades ago, there were at times situations in which I would disagree with and criticize the Israeli government - not Jews and not Israeli citizens. I can't say always, but very frequently, I would be accused of anti-Semitism which I knew was absolutely not the case. This could be infuriating, as it could be an answer to every criticism or disagreement I put forth, serving as a "cut off" and effectively ending further debate. Sometimes, especially in these days of so much excess by the Israeli government and the IDF, expressing ones thoughts and opinions contrary to those actions and policies can feel like walking through a minefield. However, in the proper venues and in communicating with my elected representatives, I cannot, in good conscience, stay silent either. Silence belongs to the dead, not the living.