Genocide Joe is outraged about the arrest warrant for the war criminal Netanyahu.. He rejected any
"equivalence" between Israel and Hamas. Actually, he's right. Jewish terror gangs killed 15,000 and drove 800,000 Palestinians from their ancestral homes Israel wins the terror war, hands down1
Biden is horrible on Gaza, but here’s the alternative.
From a Washington post article today: Trump told donors he will crush pro-Palestinian protests, deport demonstrators
“Former president Donald Trump promised to crush pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses, telling a roomful of donors — a group that he joked included “98 percent of my Jewish friends” — that he would expel student demonstrators from the United States, according to participants in the roundtable event with him in New York. “One thing I do is, any student that protests, I throw them out of the country. You know, there are a lot of foreign students. As soon as they hear that, they’re going to behave,” Trump said on May 14, according to donors at the event. When one of the donors complained that many of the students and professors protesting on campuses could one day hold positions of power in the United States, Trump called the demonstrators part of a “radical revolution” that he vowed to defeat. He praised the New York Police Department for clearing the campus at Columbia University and said other cities needed to follow suit, saying “it has to be stopped now.” “Well, if you get me elected, and you should really be doing this, if you get me reelected, we’re going to set that movement back 25 or 30 years,” he said, according to the donors, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to detail a private event.”
Bob, I was attempting to reply to SB, my apologies; in fact, I’m taking exception to SB’s comments. I would agree that Apartheid Israel is a greater terrorist than Hamas, although I’m uncomfortable with the analogy. One rapist or a murderer with only one victim are as guilty as a serial rapist or a mass murderer. Fascist Israel’s response was out of proportion as required by International law. Therefore, Israel’s response was criminal and needs to be held accountable. Biden’s and U.S. complicity also requires accountability. Our efforts on behalf of Palestinians helps mitigate our personal complicity.
Biden’s complicity should disqualify him from serving and running again for office, allowing his VP to assume the office and run against fascist trump. Although Harris is married to a Zionist, I don’t believe she is one. She would have to demand her hubby shut up and no longer advocate for the Zionist, White supremacy, Western, colonial settler, fascist, and imperialist enterprise,
Biden’s complicity ought to require that he forfeit any retirement benefits that ought to accrue towards reparations for Palestinians who should be made as whole as possible.
If you agree, send Biden a brief and polite email calling him to resign, now, at WH.gov. Presidential impunity (immunity) must end, retroactively. It should have been obvious to him that his duty was to stop, not embrace, Bibi. Hamas crimes required a law enforcement not military action/response. Biden’s demonstrated lack of empathy incompetence, bigotry, or White supremacy bias and/or ignorance and historic disregard for the rights of Palestine and Palestinians; trait's that ought to disqualify anyone from serving in public office. It time to make amends by granting full rights to Palestinians, including recognizing Palestine as a state, and restore what was rightfully theirs, but wrongfully destroyed.
Of course I am not arguing it’s best to do nothing. I’m trying to find a way to do something that actually contributes to ending the suffering since 1948. My point is that the emphasis has to be where there is the highest likelihood of success. So follow the money and try to pressure the US financially to pressure Israel politically. Otherwise we will just lose more innocent lives without solving the problem.
S.B., What’s you’re point? Are you arguing it’s best not to anything; not even try to help stop the unfolding and horrific crime, the massacres that are genocidal in their intent? Why did you take (waste) your time commenting if there is no hope and doing anything, any effort, is futile? Perhaps you advocacy is in the hope you will convince others to refrain from even trying to stop the carnage, to indulge in the indifference that allow the slaughter to occur in the first place—with the impunity and shamelessness posible with anonymity.
Your efforts are similar to those in the GOP that disingenuously encourage not voting presumably because,
they claim, it makes no difference when in fact doing nothing helps the fascists more than, indifference, a low turnout. In this case, people of your ilk are helping, perhaps unwittingly due to ignorance (to be kind,) the perpetrators and those complicit in the crimes of genocide, war, humanity, ecocide, etc., by failing in the moral duty to aid the victim and stop the thug(s). Fascists fear the synergy that occurs through solidarity when outnumbered by good people uniting to affect change so that justice may prevail.
You have completely missed my point. But I’m glad you support the effort to stop the senseless killing of innocents.
The point is, to be real, nothing will work out unless the US is forced to capitulate or the UN is restructured into a new entity that excludes them or at least removes their veto powers. Israel doesn’t give a damn about the UN in its current form, and the US can veto on their behalf, so the UN is toothless as regards Israeli violations. Rules with no means of enforcement.
I see a lot of us agreeing on the interpretation, I’m just trying to move toward effective implementation.
Pressure must be applied on the pressure points. Pushing politicians to stop buying US treasuries might help twist the arms of U.S. politicians to change their stance.
Biden’s response to the ICC seeking arrest warrants against Hamas and Israeli officials was “Outrageous!” I thought it would have been “Whew! Not me yet”.
Sadly I don’t think any amount of conversation will change anything. The Israelis will only use the international entities when it suits their complaints, and disregard them when it doesn’t. Globally the issue is enforcement. These organizations always be impotent as long as there is no credible means to enforce their actions. Today it’s the US against the world and as long as they hold the power nothing will change.
The only chance for credible change is if Europe, and even better the rest of the world, united to form a counterbalancing force to the US. Regretfully, Europe has proven it cannot be united in much, and when it comes to Israel Germany is still paying for its historical errors.
Which brings us to money. The only thing that matters to the US, and why it holds so much power in the world. The world trembles at the thought of losing American business, hence the US yields a mighty sword. Stop funding their ballooning debt and they will be more inclined to talk more politely.
Until then Israel will NEVER follow the current rules like anyone else, and the US will never stop backing them as long as they have everything to gain in doing so, and nothing to lose.
Of course you’re right. My point is that the emphasis has to be where there is the highest likelihood of success. So follow the money and try to pressure the US financially to pressure Israel politically. Otherwise we will just lose more innocent lives resisting but not solving.
IMO Zionist extremist. Zionist like Trump because he helped Israel annex 30% of Palestinian land with the move to Jerusalem, and normalization with Israel.
conservative Jews like David Friedman a longtime friend of Trump has called for Israeli annexation of the West Bank.
Excellent discussion. When Owen went dark at the exact moment he was starting to describe the legal case against British politicians & commentators for their complicity — only getting so far as to mention that Tayab Ali is the lawyer — I really had to wonder if it was sabotage.
Thanks so much for an excellent discussion. Brilliant hosts / brilliant guests.
Watching the reaction today by the State Department was so disgusting I didn’t get past 5 minutes. The U.S. is all in and it’ll be interesting to see just how much Biden loses by in November.
Top Show. A proper discussion of Gravitas, Integrity, Humanity and Decency. Ilan Pappe is a "laconic" legend of a man who retains his sanity despite the Zionist Colonial Project's Maniacal Murder Spree. Diana Buttu, a Human Rights lawyer of Courage and Tenacity, Owen Jones, an absolute terrier when he gets his teeth into the subject at hand. And of course, the incomparable Medhi Hasan. Conversation of nuance and context, without the slanging match. Thanks for keeping truth alive.
Traditionally, the ICC persecution recommend that arrest warrants be issued by the court in secret, and announces the charges only after the court approves. What do you read into the fact that, in this case, the persecutor announced the recommendation before the court approved?
Some commentators suggested that Mr. Khan expected that it might have positive impact on the ground in helping restrain Israel. I completely disagree with that and, if anything, it seems to be having the opposite effect.
To me, it appears to be an effort from the persecution's side to tip off Israel and its powerful allies and give them time to mobilize. That way they can find ways to head off the potential charges by intimidating, bribing, and or influencing the judges in other ways.
A drop of justice in a conflict marked by impunity. I don't want to be pessimistic but Palestinians have been suffering for too many years (at least since 1948) with countless massacres. Yet the ICC is issuing a warrant for Satanyahu and Galant, ONLY, as if other Israeli war criminals did nothing ! As if it is legal to occupy territories, perpetrate massacres, steal goods and natural resources ... as long as you have a strong ally able to use its Veto, supply 2000 pound bombs, threaten world learders and institutions ... you are free to do whatever you want !! At least, the ICC should have included the IOF commandment. Not only that, they have also included the victims and also used allegations of rape which have been debunked more than once !! What about the real evidence of rape of 13 year old Palestinian by the IDF/IOF before Oct 7th? These are not only allegations ! These are real facts raised by officials from the US state department that have been ignored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrb_cb6-rHI. And these are the tip of the iceberg. What about the Israeli whistleblowers who have just detailed abuse of Palestinians in shadowy detention center (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html) ? !! What about the mass graves ?! What about all other massacres ??? ...
This is absolutely outrageous. How the next (and even this) generation will have faith in world leading institutions like the ICJ, ICC, UN when they are applying a racist double standard to the two ongoing "wars" : Ukraine vs Russia and Israel vs Gaza/Palestinians ?!!
Much ado about nothing! I am growing disenchanted with the media class even this program even though I respect Ilan Pappe. The truth is, there is no moral equivalency in the ICC’s action. Israel is an illegal occupier and now and has been a genocidal state. And to focus on how “huge” it is to seek indictments on only two of the Israeli criminals while also seeking against three Hamas leaders fighting an occupation just shows how corrupt it all is.
Disappointed. Never got the email to get into the live town hall even though I registered early (yesterday), was accepted and registered. I went in several more times and resent the email, and it still never arrived. Not that I was likely to be able to get a question in, but the option still was not available to me as a paid subscriber. Unfortunate.
Of course the Rapey Jews knew this was coming, this is their effort to pretend to be leading it when it becomes clear they have been lying, abusing, murdering and grifting off their Holocaust lies while the Germans and Japanese rebuilt better societies for themselves.
Jews . Are . Too . Stupid . And . Vapid . And . Selfish . To . Evolve
They repeat over and over it was 6 million. There are only estimates of 4.8-5.8 million.
Question any Jew on the proof and exact number of the 6 million figure -> Anti Semite.
When Israel and the Zionist pundits discount the number of Palestinians killed by Israel as declared by Hamas, Al Jazeera, The UN or any non Zionist organization believe the Zionists, not the rest of the world.
Golda Meir "In a war between man and savage always side with man"
Tablet is a Jewish magazine about the world. They really believe the BS in their echo chamber.
Genocide Joe is outraged about the arrest warrant for the war criminal Netanyahu.. He rejected any
"equivalence" between Israel and Hamas. Actually, he's right. Jewish terror gangs killed 15,000 and drove 800,000 Palestinians from their ancestral homes Israel wins the terror war, hands down1
Biden is horrible on Gaza, but here’s the alternative.
From a Washington post article today: Trump told donors he will crush pro-Palestinian protests, deport demonstrators
“Former president Donald Trump promised to crush pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses, telling a roomful of donors — a group that he joked included “98 percent of my Jewish friends” — that he would expel student demonstrators from the United States, according to participants in the roundtable event with him in New York. “One thing I do is, any student that protests, I throw them out of the country. You know, there are a lot of foreign students. As soon as they hear that, they’re going to behave,” Trump said on May 14, according to donors at the event. When one of the donors complained that many of the students and professors protesting on campuses could one day hold positions of power in the United States, Trump called the demonstrators part of a “radical revolution” that he vowed to defeat. He praised the New York Police Department for clearing the campus at Columbia University and said other cities needed to follow suit, saying “it has to be stopped now.” “Well, if you get me elected, and you should really be doing this, if you get me reelected, we’re going to set that movement back 25 or 30 years,” he said, according to the donors, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to detail a private event.”
Correction #2
Bob, I referred to SD as SB.
Bob, I was attempting to reply to SB, my apologies; in fact, I’m taking exception to SB’s comments. I would agree that Apartheid Israel is a greater terrorist than Hamas, although I’m uncomfortable with the analogy. One rapist or a murderer with only one victim are as guilty as a serial rapist or a mass murderer. Fascist Israel’s response was out of proportion as required by International law. Therefore, Israel’s response was criminal and needs to be held accountable. Biden’s and U.S. complicity also requires accountability. Our efforts on behalf of Palestinians helps mitigate our personal complicity.
Biden’s complicity should disqualify him from serving and running again for office, allowing his VP to assume the office and run against fascist trump. Although Harris is married to a Zionist, I don’t believe she is one. She would have to demand her hubby shut up and no longer advocate for the Zionist, White supremacy, Western, colonial settler, fascist, and imperialist enterprise,
Biden’s complicity ought to require that he forfeit any retirement benefits that ought to accrue towards reparations for Palestinians who should be made as whole as possible.
If you agree, send Biden a brief and polite email calling him to resign, now, at WH.gov. Presidential impunity (immunity) must end, retroactively. It should have been obvious to him that his duty was to stop, not embrace, Bibi. Hamas crimes required a law enforcement not military action/response. Biden’s demonstrated lack of empathy incompetence, bigotry, or White supremacy bias and/or ignorance and historic disregard for the rights of Palestine and Palestinians; trait's that ought to disqualify anyone from serving in public office. It time to make amends by granting full rights to Palestinians, including recognizing Palestine as a state, and restore what was rightfully theirs, but wrongfully destroyed.
Of course I am not arguing it’s best to do nothing. I’m trying to find a way to do something that actually contributes to ending the suffering since 1948. My point is that the emphasis has to be where there is the highest likelihood of success. So follow the money and try to pressure the US financially to pressure Israel politically. Otherwise we will just lose more innocent lives without solving the problem.
S.B., What’s you’re point? Are you arguing it’s best not to anything; not even try to help stop the unfolding and horrific crime, the massacres that are genocidal in their intent? Why did you take (waste) your time commenting if there is no hope and doing anything, any effort, is futile? Perhaps you advocacy is in the hope you will convince others to refrain from even trying to stop the carnage, to indulge in the indifference that allow the slaughter to occur in the first place—with the impunity and shamelessness posible with anonymity.
Your efforts are similar to those in the GOP that disingenuously encourage not voting presumably because,
they claim, it makes no difference when in fact doing nothing helps the fascists more than, indifference, a low turnout. In this case, people of your ilk are helping, perhaps unwittingly due to ignorance (to be kind,) the perpetrators and those complicit in the crimes of genocide, war, humanity, ecocide, etc., by failing in the moral duty to aid the victim and stop the thug(s). Fascists fear the synergy that occurs through solidarity when outnumbered by good people uniting to affect change so that justice may prevail.
You have completely missed my point. But I’m glad you support the effort to stop the senseless killing of innocents.
The point is, to be real, nothing will work out unless the US is forced to capitulate or the UN is restructured into a new entity that excludes them or at least removes their veto powers. Israel doesn’t give a damn about the UN in its current form, and the US can veto on their behalf, so the UN is toothless as regards Israeli violations. Rules with no means of enforcement.
I see a lot of us agreeing on the interpretation, I’m just trying to move toward effective implementation.
Pressure must be applied on the pressure points. Pushing politicians to stop buying US treasuries might help twist the arms of U.S. politicians to change their stance.
Biden’s response to the ICC seeking arrest warrants against Hamas and Israeli officials was “Outrageous!” I thought it would have been “Whew! Not me yet”.
Sadly I don’t think any amount of conversation will change anything. The Israelis will only use the international entities when it suits their complaints, and disregard them when it doesn’t. Globally the issue is enforcement. These organizations always be impotent as long as there is no credible means to enforce their actions. Today it’s the US against the world and as long as they hold the power nothing will change.
The only chance for credible change is if Europe, and even better the rest of the world, united to form a counterbalancing force to the US. Regretfully, Europe has proven it cannot be united in much, and when it comes to Israel Germany is still paying for its historical errors.
Which brings us to money. The only thing that matters to the US, and why it holds so much power in the world. The world trembles at the thought of losing American business, hence the US yields a mighty sword. Stop funding their ballooning debt and they will be more inclined to talk more politely.
Until then Israel will NEVER follow the current rules like anyone else, and the US will never stop backing them as long as they have everything to gain in doing so, and nothing to lose.
A lot of your smaller points are true, but the overarching hopelessness of your argument begs the counterpoint:
Resistance is not futile.
Of course you’re right. My point is that the emphasis has to be where there is the highest likelihood of success. So follow the money and try to pressure the US financially to pressure Israel politically. Otherwise we will just lose more innocent lives resisting but not solving.
Correction:
SD, above, I referred to you as SB; my apologies.
Excellent program. Thank you, Mehdi and Owen.
Peggy Maloof
I don’t really have much of a grasp of who and why these American Jewish groups/ people are supporting Trump (per the link below), and wonder if anyone can help me get a more factual take on it. Are they all Zionist extremists or what?! Thanks for all your wonderful offerings. I am going to listen to today’s shortly! https://www.thebulwark.com/p/october-7-turning-point-trump-fundraising?utm_campaign=email-half-post&r=1hfuu&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
IMO Zionist extremist. Zionist like Trump because he helped Israel annex 30% of Palestinian land with the move to Jerusalem, and normalization with Israel.
conservative Jews like David Friedman a longtime friend of Trump has called for Israeli annexation of the West Bank.
It's Jewish supremacy.
Christians United for Israel or CUFI supports Israel, they believe that Israel plays a role in bringing the second coming of Jesus Christ.
Lovelies, Mehdi and Owen, also the Diana and Pappe, you are absolutely wonderful for your voices, can't thank you enough for your words.♥️♥️♥️
Excellent discussion. When Owen went dark at the exact moment he was starting to describe the legal case against British politicians & commentators for their complicity — only getting so far as to mention that Tayab Ali is the lawyer — I really had to wonder if it was sabotage.
Thanks so much for an excellent discussion. Brilliant hosts / brilliant guests.
Watching the reaction today by the State Department was so disgusting I didn’t get past 5 minutes. The U.S. is all in and it’ll be interesting to see just how much Biden loses by in November.
Top Show. A proper discussion of Gravitas, Integrity, Humanity and Decency. Ilan Pappe is a "laconic" legend of a man who retains his sanity despite the Zionist Colonial Project's Maniacal Murder Spree. Diana Buttu, a Human Rights lawyer of Courage and Tenacity, Owen Jones, an absolute terrier when he gets his teeth into the subject at hand. And of course, the incomparable Medhi Hasan. Conversation of nuance and context, without the slanging match. Thanks for keeping truth alive.
Traditionally, the ICC persecution recommend that arrest warrants be issued by the court in secret, and announces the charges only after the court approves. What do you read into the fact that, in this case, the persecutor announced the recommendation before the court approved?
Some commentators suggested that Mr. Khan expected that it might have positive impact on the ground in helping restrain Israel. I completely disagree with that and, if anything, it seems to be having the opposite effect.
To me, it appears to be an effort from the persecution's side to tip off Israel and its powerful allies and give them time to mobilize. That way they can find ways to head off the potential charges by intimidating, bribing, and or influencing the judges in other ways.
A drop of justice in a conflict marked by impunity. I don't want to be pessimistic but Palestinians have been suffering for too many years (at least since 1948) with countless massacres. Yet the ICC is issuing a warrant for Satanyahu and Galant, ONLY, as if other Israeli war criminals did nothing ! As if it is legal to occupy territories, perpetrate massacres, steal goods and natural resources ... as long as you have a strong ally able to use its Veto, supply 2000 pound bombs, threaten world learders and institutions ... you are free to do whatever you want !! At least, the ICC should have included the IOF commandment. Not only that, they have also included the victims and also used allegations of rape which have been debunked more than once !! What about the real evidence of rape of 13 year old Palestinian by the IDF/IOF before Oct 7th? These are not only allegations ! These are real facts raised by officials from the US state department that have been ignored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrb_cb6-rHI. And these are the tip of the iceberg. What about the Israeli whistleblowers who have just detailed abuse of Palestinians in shadowy detention center (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html) ? !! What about the mass graves ?! What about all other massacres ??? ...
This is absolutely outrageous. How the next (and even this) generation will have faith in world leading institutions like the ICJ, ICC, UN when they are applying a racist double standard to the two ongoing "wars" : Ukraine vs Russia and Israel vs Gaza/Palestinians ?!!
Much ado about nothing! I am growing disenchanted with the media class even this program even though I respect Ilan Pappe. The truth is, there is no moral equivalency in the ICC’s action. Israel is an illegal occupier and now and has been a genocidal state. And to focus on how “huge” it is to seek indictments on only two of the Israeli criminals while also seeking against three Hamas leaders fighting an occupation just shows how corrupt it all is.
Disappointed. Never got the email to get into the live town hall even though I registered early (yesterday), was accepted and registered. I went in several more times and resent the email, and it still never arrived. Not that I was likely to be able to get a question in, but the option still was not available to me as a paid subscriber. Unfortunate.
Please contact the support, they helped me solve the same problem as yours.
Of course the Rapey Jews knew this was coming, this is their effort to pretend to be leading it when it becomes clear they have been lying, abusing, murdering and grifting off their Holocaust lies while the Germans and Japanese rebuilt better societies for themselves.
Jews . Are . Too . Stupid . And . Vapid . And . Selfish . To . Evolve
They repeat over and over it was 6 million. There are only estimates of 4.8-5.8 million.
Question any Jew on the proof and exact number of the 6 million figure -> Anti Semite.
When Israel and the Zionist pundits discount the number of Palestinians killed by Israel as declared by Hamas, Al Jazeera, The UN or any non Zionist organization believe the Zionists, not the rest of the world.
Golda Meir "In a war between man and savage always side with man"
Tablet is a Jewish magazine about the world. They really believe the BS in their echo chamber.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers
This is spread across the conservative "patriot" investor class internet:
https://discussion.fool.com/t/fake-casualty-numbers/102789
A new bi-polar world: Global Israel vs Global Get Real.