The Democrats’ Brilliant Strategic Response: Arguing About Words While Rome Burns
So let me get this straight: ICE agents murdered a 37-year-old mother on camera, 3,000 federal agents are doing door-to-door operations, they’re recruiting with neo-Nazi dog whistles and $50k signing bonuses, and the Democratic Party’s response is… checks notes—debating whether “Abolish ICE” might upset swing voters?
Olympic-level political malpractice.
Here’s the game theory: When one player executes maximum aggression and the other is paralyzed by focus groups, the aggressive player wins.
Every. Single. Time.
The best part? A plurality of Americans now support abolishing ICE—the exact position Democratic elites are afraid to touch. They’re refusing to adopt a “popular position”because they think it might be unpopular. Brilliant.
Meanwhile, the administration escalates because there’s no cost. Maine is next. Why wouldn’t they keep going? The opposition is too busy tone-policing activists to actually oppose anything.
Second-order effects these geniuses are missing:
First order: Federal agents murder resident on camera
Second order: Democratic leadership debates messaging
Third order: Base becomes demoralized, swing voters see weakness, administration escalates further because there’s zero resistance
This is what institutional collapse looks like: masked federal agents murdering American citizens on video while the opposition party debates whether saying mean things about ICE would poll well.
At this point, the Democratic Party’s tombstone should read: “We were very concerned about our messaging during the collapse.”
P.S. To any Democratic strategists reading this: When federal agents are murdering people on camera and public opinion supports the position you’re afraid to take, maybe the problem isn’t the message. It’s your complete inability to respond to authoritarianism because you’re trapped in a 2012 electability mindset.
The game changed. You didn’t. And now American citizens are dying while you debate what words are acceptable.
—Johan
Professor of Behavioral Economics & Applied Cognitive Theory
Tell it, Johan! What a brilliant response! How about sending this to every member of congress & senate plus the idiot at the top & his filthy henchmen!
I am not a Democratic Elite and I say abolish ICE. ICE did not exist before 2003, and we handled immigration just fine. I see no need for it. Reforming it is not going to do anything because how do you reform White Supremacist Militia members? YOU DON'T! So, since advocating for that is just a wastie, waste of timey time, I do not recommend putting energy into this nothing plan for addressing ICE. Thank goodness for judges who are being clear and trying to hamper them as much as any legislation would, but they are not always being listened to. Trump wants something else, and that is what these cretins listen to.
Should we consider our inconvenience to what's happening in Gaza and its surround. Both evident of complete disregard to the will of the folks that live their while SS like thugs of Nazi times Select their chosen victims.
This regime is all about ignoring the will of the people that live in places, which is why he invades Blue States as well as other countries. He is joining his buddy Mr. N. in being an international war criminal.
This is one of the main reasons that the feckless, corporate Clinton Democrats have little support. Do they believe in anything? Obviously not. Or, rather, they believe in very similar things to the criminal Republican Party, but just to the left, not enough for any voter to notice the small, marginal difference.
We need fighting progressives in the image of Teddy Roosevelt and FDR for people to notice that there actually are two political parties and one is the PROGRESSIVE, liberal party and not merely a less libertarian, pro-elite party that can't even find the words to fight the coup that has taken control of our liberal government, replacing the constitution with their Unitary Executive who now murders American citizens in their military conquest in their ground offensive.
Absofuckinglutely pathetic. And these pearl-clutchers still think that they can "work with" their Republican "colleagues"! Fuck them.
According to other news sources, 153 House Democrats voted with Republicans this week to rubber-stamp Trump’s agenda to: give Israel another $3.3 billion for its military, despite the country’s innumerable violations of the “ceasefire” agreement; cut off funding for UNRWA, the largest source of humanitarian aid to Gaza; codify anti-abortion provisions, including in DC; fund regime change in Venezuela.
May we please stop referring to these “Democrats” as “centrists?” Somehow, we have a left-wing of the party and the “centrists/moderates.” Does it really need to be said that there’s nothing moderate about genocide? There’s nothing moderate about voting to sustain thugs on the street to assault and disappear our neighbors? There’s nothing moderate about invading on false pretenses another country that hasn’t attacked us, setting up a proxy government and stealing its resources?
Orwell wrote that the first stage of fascism was the corruption of language. Let’s give these “Democrats,” including Schumer and Jeffries and dozens of others, their due. They’re right-wing Democrats. Let’s introduce the terminology that’s been long overdue instead of aiding and abetting their hiding behind the monikers of centrist and moderate while paying their right-wing consultants and following the wishes of their billionaire donors and obsessing over “messaging” to deceive the rest of us. We should be flooding Congress with demands to abolish ICE. And supporting alternative candidates in the primaries. There are now lots of good ones who are having to withstand the well-funded attacks of “centrist” Democrats (the DNC) and their billionaire donors. The days of voting blue no matter who are over for many of us.
Thanks, Regina. I will pass on the link/information. Very helpful. Some of the Democrats who voted for this bill as shown on the tally shocked me. And only 57 Democrats voted against it.
The Democratic Party has failed, and so did the Republican Party. It is time for us , the American people, to elect representatives based on values. We need Leaders We Deserve, not puppets who carry the waters for foreign lobbies at our expense.
The GOP is a criminal organization who has been attacking our country from the inside as they said that they would since Reagan, make it "small enough to drown in a bathtub" and replace the constitution with their Unitary Executive. They succeeded executing their plan.
The Democrats failed because their only plan, since Clinton, was to copy the Republican playbook enough to win back the mythical "undecided" voter to regain enough power to garner campaign donations from a segment of the elites such that they could gain back some political power after the economic trauma of the 1970s.
Elected Democrats had better not appropriate even MORE funding for ICE ….we are watching and we vote. Of course we need enforcement at customs and immigration. That is not what ICE is, it has evolved into a cohort of overfed and undertrained brutes. That needs to stop..now,
These “presented” suggestions/recommendations reek of ai! I do not think that there is much hope for the Democratic Party as most are cowards who are unwilling to do what is right. There is no plan, no daily pushback or anything at all that would make me think that the dems are or would be capable of creating any momentum against the domestic/international terrorists that are running our government! It is OUR government and the elected need to be accountable. The electors should NOT have to beg the elected to what is right, honorable and moral. However their allegiance is not to this country, freedom, equality or democracy! It is to “the party” and the oligarchs that run things according to their agenda.
So let’s do something revolutionary and move away from the stagnant current party/elected and become a voice for the things that we care about and put our money and support with folks who are brave enough to say AND do things otherwise we will be in this third world situation indefinitely.
Only if Greenland wants to put them in in jails. After 10 years or so they can get out on work release. Heck, give them two dogs, a sled, and ice fishing gear. The US should pay for their detention and work dogs and equipment. If that costs too much, build the prisons as tents and chainlink fencing.
But seriously, I would not want to risk corrupting anyone in Greenland by exposure to any of these people.
Can't Dems just say Replace ICE? We need to scrap the organization as it exists but it keeps the republicans from claiming Dems want lawlessness. No matter the intent behind our messaging, Republicans will misrepresent it.
Why use Replace Carol? What's the difference? Do you not think the Maga-ists already think the Dems are lawless? Why does it matter what they think? They've been claiming this all along-including in the description of Good. You end by saying they will misrepresent it so I don't understand what you're offering here-
Let me apologize now because this is gonna be lengthy. Too many groups are speculating on the right message when democrats need to be focused on the messaging of We The People. Based on some messaging opinions, a protest sign should not state ICE is a domestic terrorist funded by republicans (and apparently Schumer and Jeffries) but should state, maybe in pink letters, that ICE is cruel. Deep breaths. I’ll stop here but I’m going to add that it was reported that Ruben Gallego voted in support of trump’s nominee for asst secretary of defense (war). We really are on our own.
Partly thanks to Democratic elites, POSOTUS was elected president. Partly thanks to Democratic elites, POSOTUS was re-elected president, despite his horrific first term and his efforts to overthrow the government, efforts they down-played immediately and tragically. Unless Democratic elites are defeated, we’re screwed.
Aren't these the same brilliant Democrat consulting firms that brought us tRump in the first place? It's why Harris ran away from progressive policies and starting hanging out with Liz Cheney. Why is any Dem with a brain listening to them? Shame on the whole spineless lot.
The focus needs to be on the harm ICE agents are doing to undermine people's rights. Trying to abolish the organization and being aggressive will only allow Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act and thus undermine the ability of the mid-term elections to take place unimpeded. This is the only chance during this presidential term to reduce the powers of the office.
The problem is that the GOP is controlling the narrative. So, Renee is a "domestic terrorist" obstructing federal authorities acting to remove illegal aliens. What else do you hear from the mass media? The feckless, corporate Clinton Democrats are trying to look serious for those mythical "swing" voters who don't think that the feckless, corporate Clinton Democrats stand for anything.
True enough. The feckless Democrats, repesented by Schumer and Jeffries, are going nowhere with voters. What's need is a feisty Democrat with a populist message like the one Bernie Sanders has been touting for years.
First time poster, came here to post my favorite Sesame Street meme “one of these things is not like the other.” The police play a role in society that is seen by many as helpful, they are known their existence is comforting (not agreeing AT ALL just pointing it out). ICE is unknown and neutral at best, and in this moment is a purely destructive force that few if anyone would mind doing without. In fact, the more folks could make clear that ICE does not equal police they don’t perform law enforcement functions and aren’t governed by established rules the more people will be happy to do without (I understand close to 50% of people agree that ICE should be abolished).
Also, ICE was created as an overreaction to Bush's failure to prevent the use of planes as WMD as explained in a presidential daily brief. It was part of the Department of Homeland Security debacle, which also should be abolished along with the Patriot Act and other authoritarian laws that are also an overreaction to that failure.
The Democrats’ Brilliant Strategic Response: Arguing About Words While Rome Burns
So let me get this straight: ICE agents murdered a 37-year-old mother on camera, 3,000 federal agents are doing door-to-door operations, they’re recruiting with neo-Nazi dog whistles and $50k signing bonuses, and the Democratic Party’s response is… checks notes—debating whether “Abolish ICE” might upset swing voters?
Olympic-level political malpractice.
Here’s the game theory: When one player executes maximum aggression and the other is paralyzed by focus groups, the aggressive player wins.
Every. Single. Time.
The best part? A plurality of Americans now support abolishing ICE—the exact position Democratic elites are afraid to touch. They’re refusing to adopt a “popular position”because they think it might be unpopular. Brilliant.
Meanwhile, the administration escalates because there’s no cost. Maine is next. Why wouldn’t they keep going? The opposition is too busy tone-policing activists to actually oppose anything.
Second-order effects these geniuses are missing:
First order: Federal agents murder resident on camera
Second order: Democratic leadership debates messaging
Third order: Base becomes demoralized, swing voters see weakness, administration escalates further because there’s zero resistance
This is what institutional collapse looks like: masked federal agents murdering American citizens on video while the opposition party debates whether saying mean things about ICE would poll well.
At this point, the Democratic Party’s tombstone should read: “We were very concerned about our messaging during the collapse.”
P.S. To any Democratic strategists reading this: When federal agents are murdering people on camera and public opinion supports the position you’re afraid to take, maybe the problem isn’t the message. It’s your complete inability to respond to authoritarianism because you’re trapped in a 2012 electability mindset.
The game changed. You didn’t. And now American citizens are dying while you debate what words are acceptable.
—Johan
Professor of Behavioral Economics & Applied Cognitive Theory
Former Foreign Service Officer
I am borrowing parts of yours to send to my Rep Pelosi who voted yes on HR 7066-thank you!
THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP IS DEAF, DUMB, MUTE, PARALYZED
We need to change it NOW
let's demonstrate and demand they be thrown out
Schumer OUT, Jeffries OUT
They're the definition of feckless.
Tell it, Johan! What a brilliant response! How about sending this to every member of congress & senate plus the idiot at the top & his filthy henchmen!
https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1qf15zw/important_message_to_dems/
That was great-thanks!
I am not a Democratic Elite and I say abolish ICE. ICE did not exist before 2003, and we handled immigration just fine. I see no need for it. Reforming it is not going to do anything because how do you reform White Supremacist Militia members? YOU DON'T! So, since advocating for that is just a wastie, waste of timey time, I do not recommend putting energy into this nothing plan for addressing ICE. Thank goodness for judges who are being clear and trying to hamper them as much as any legislation would, but they are not always being listened to. Trump wants something else, and that is what these cretins listen to.
Should we consider our inconvenience to what's happening in Gaza and its surround. Both evident of complete disregard to the will of the folks that live their while SS like thugs of Nazi times Select their chosen victims.
This regime is all about ignoring the will of the people that live in places, which is why he invades Blue States as well as other countries. He is joining his buddy Mr. N. in being an international war criminal.
You can’t reform racist misogynist fascists. Reform takes at least two sides. When there is only one side abolition is the necessity.
This is the definition of feckless.
This is one of the main reasons that the feckless, corporate Clinton Democrats have little support. Do they believe in anything? Obviously not. Or, rather, they believe in very similar things to the criminal Republican Party, but just to the left, not enough for any voter to notice the small, marginal difference.
We need fighting progressives in the image of Teddy Roosevelt and FDR for people to notice that there actually are two political parties and one is the PROGRESSIVE, liberal party and not merely a less libertarian, pro-elite party that can't even find the words to fight the coup that has taken control of our liberal government, replacing the constitution with their Unitary Executive who now murders American citizens in their military conquest in their ground offensive.
Absofuckinglutely pathetic. And these pearl-clutchers still think that they can "work with" their Republican "colleagues"! Fuck them.
According to other news sources, 153 House Democrats voted with Republicans this week to rubber-stamp Trump’s agenda to: give Israel another $3.3 billion for its military, despite the country’s innumerable violations of the “ceasefire” agreement; cut off funding for UNRWA, the largest source of humanitarian aid to Gaza; codify anti-abortion provisions, including in DC; fund regime change in Venezuela.
May we please stop referring to these “Democrats” as “centrists?” Somehow, we have a left-wing of the party and the “centrists/moderates.” Does it really need to be said that there’s nothing moderate about genocide? There’s nothing moderate about voting to sustain thugs on the street to assault and disappear our neighbors? There’s nothing moderate about invading on false pretenses another country that hasn’t attacked us, setting up a proxy government and stealing its resources?
Orwell wrote that the first stage of fascism was the corruption of language. Let’s give these “Democrats,” including Schumer and Jeffries and dozens of others, their due. They’re right-wing Democrats. Let’s introduce the terminology that’s been long overdue instead of aiding and abetting their hiding behind the monikers of centrist and moderate while paying their right-wing consultants and following the wishes of their billionaire donors and obsessing over “messaging” to deceive the rest of us. We should be flooding Congress with demands to abolish ICE. And supporting alternative candidates in the primaries. There are now lots of good ones who are having to withstand the well-funded attacks of “centrist” Democrats (the DNC) and their billionaire donors. The days of voting blue no matter who are over for many of us.
Thank you for the straight talk Nancy! Am sharing this and you might want to use it as well-the votes for HR 7006: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202628?RollCallNum=28&BillNum=H.R.7006
Thanks, Regina. I will pass on the link/information. Very helpful. Some of the Democrats who voted for this bill as shown on the tally shocked me. And only 57 Democrats voted against it.
Abolish ICE! Abolish ICE! Abolish ICE! REPEAT!
Or at least cut their funding drastically
Funding has already happened Peter, 153 Dems voted AYE on H.R. 7006:
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202628?RollCallNum=28&BillNum=H.R.7006
I see, thank you
The Democratic Party has failed, and so did the Republican Party. It is time for us , the American people, to elect representatives based on values. We need Leaders We Deserve, not puppets who carry the waters for foreign lobbies at our expense.
The GOP is a criminal organization who has been attacking our country from the inside as they said that they would since Reagan, make it "small enough to drown in a bathtub" and replace the constitution with their Unitary Executive. They succeeded executing their plan.
The Democrats failed because their only plan, since Clinton, was to copy the Republican playbook enough to win back the mythical "undecided" voter to regain enough power to garner campaign donations from a segment of the elites such that they could gain back some political power after the economic trauma of the 1970s.
Spot on-and exactly what I said to a friend last night that wants to make a donation- Leaders We Deserve! https://leaderswedeserve.com/
Elected Democrats had better not appropriate even MORE funding for ICE ….we are watching and we vote. Of course we need enforcement at customs and immigration. That is not what ICE is, it has evolved into a cohort of overfed and undertrained brutes. That needs to stop..now,
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202628?RollCallNum=28&BillNum=H.R.7006
These “presented” suggestions/recommendations reek of ai! I do not think that there is much hope for the Democratic Party as most are cowards who are unwilling to do what is right. There is no plan, no daily pushback or anything at all that would make me think that the dems are or would be capable of creating any momentum against the domestic/international terrorists that are running our government! It is OUR government and the elected need to be accountable. The electors should NOT have to beg the elected to what is right, honorable and moral. However their allegiance is not to this country, freedom, equality or democracy! It is to “the party” and the oligarchs that run things according to their agenda.
So let’s do something revolutionary and move away from the stagnant current party/elected and become a voice for the things that we care about and put our money and support with folks who are brave enough to say AND do things otherwise we will be in this third world situation indefinitely.
THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!
Greenland has a lot of ice maybe send more ice there for good?
Only if Greenland wants to put them in in jails. After 10 years or so they can get out on work release. Heck, give them two dogs, a sled, and ice fishing gear. The US should pay for their detention and work dogs and equipment. If that costs too much, build the prisons as tents and chainlink fencing.
But seriously, I would not want to risk corrupting anyone in Greenland by exposure to any of these people.
Can't Dems just say Replace ICE? We need to scrap the organization as it exists but it keeps the republicans from claiming Dems want lawlessness. No matter the intent behind our messaging, Republicans will misrepresent it.
Why use Replace Carol? What's the difference? Do you not think the Maga-ists already think the Dems are lawless? Why does it matter what they think? They've been claiming this all along-including in the description of Good. You end by saying they will misrepresent it so I don't understand what you're offering here-
Let me apologize now because this is gonna be lengthy. Too many groups are speculating on the right message when democrats need to be focused on the messaging of We The People. Based on some messaging opinions, a protest sign should not state ICE is a domestic terrorist funded by republicans (and apparently Schumer and Jeffries) but should state, maybe in pink letters, that ICE is cruel. Deep breaths. I’ll stop here but I’m going to add that it was reported that Ruben Gallego voted in support of trump’s nominee for asst secretary of defense (war). We really are on our own.
Partly thanks to Democratic elites, POSOTUS was elected president. Partly thanks to Democratic elites, POSOTUS was re-elected president, despite his horrific first term and his efforts to overthrow the government, efforts they down-played immediately and tragically. Unless Democratic elites are defeated, we’re screwed.
Aren't these the same brilliant Democrat consulting firms that brought us tRump in the first place? It's why Harris ran away from progressive policies and starting hanging out with Liz Cheney. Why is any Dem with a brain listening to them? Shame on the whole spineless lot.
The focus needs to be on the harm ICE agents are doing to undermine people's rights. Trying to abolish the organization and being aggressive will only allow Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act and thus undermine the ability of the mid-term elections to take place unimpeded. This is the only chance during this presidential term to reduce the powers of the office.
The problem is that the GOP is controlling the narrative. So, Renee is a "domestic terrorist" obstructing federal authorities acting to remove illegal aliens. What else do you hear from the mass media? The feckless, corporate Clinton Democrats are trying to look serious for those mythical "swing" voters who don't think that the feckless, corporate Clinton Democrats stand for anything.
True enough. The feckless Democrats, repesented by Schumer and Jeffries, are going nowhere with voters. What's need is a feisty Democrat with a populist message like the one Bernie Sanders has been touting for years.
First time poster, came here to post my favorite Sesame Street meme “one of these things is not like the other.” The police play a role in society that is seen by many as helpful, they are known their existence is comforting (not agreeing AT ALL just pointing it out). ICE is unknown and neutral at best, and in this moment is a purely destructive force that few if anyone would mind doing without. In fact, the more folks could make clear that ICE does not equal police they don’t perform law enforcement functions and aren’t governed by established rules the more people will be happy to do without (I understand close to 50% of people agree that ICE should be abolished).
Also, ICE was created as an overreaction to Bush's failure to prevent the use of planes as WMD as explained in a presidential daily brief. It was part of the Department of Homeland Security debacle, which also should be abolished along with the Patriot Act and other authoritarian laws that are also an overreaction to that failure.