In this interview filmed right before the tenuous ceasefire was announced in Gaza, Simone sits down with a man whose name has become synonymous with the pro-Palestinian movement around the world: Mahmoud Khalil, the Columbia University graduate who was targeted by the Trump administration earlier this year. After months in ICE detention and even missing the birth of his first child, he emerged with his commitment to justice even stronger than before.
“I don’t identify as an activist…Being Palestinian, by definition, you have to be an advocate for your rights,” he tells Simone. “The fact that you’re Palestinian, you have to prove that you’re not a threat, you have to prove that you’re not an extremist, you have to prove that you’re just a human.”
Simone also traces her own connection to the Columbia organizers in their conversation, beginning with her invitation to speak at a screening of Israelism amid months of efforts to silence student voices. And Mahmoud shares new stories about his harrowing experience in ICE detention, the people he met there, the poignant letters he wrote to his family, and how the dreams of many marginalized communities are the same.
“In my case, immigration laws were weaponized to suppress dissent… and how to feed the white supremacy agenda in this country,” he says. “It’s not about one person, it’s about creating this new environment of division, of hate, in this country so you can divide and conquer.”
Simone and Mahmoud also speak about Mahmoud’s solidarity with anti-Zionist Jewish students at Columbia, the political journeys he saw them undertake, and how they worked together to demand divestment and speak out against a genocide.
It’s a powerful, grounding episode, and one that offers both an inside view of a pivotal student movement and a reminder of the human beings who continue to bear the weight of speaking out.
Free subscribers get a 6-minute preview of the video above while Zeteo’s paid subscribers can watch it in full. As always, you can also listen wherever you get your podcasts.
If you enjoy this conversation, here are some additional resources:
Read Mahmoud’s letters from detention
More about the Columbia encampment
Beyond Israelism with Simone Zimmerman is a provocative new video podcast series from Tikkun Olam Productions, the team behind the viral and award-winning 2023 film Israelism. In this series, Simone will host bold and inspiring conversations that face, head on, the growing global reckoning with Zionism, the debates over Jewish identity, and the urgent struggle for Palestinian freedom. The episodes will unpack the myths of Zionism; dive deep into the meaning of Palestinian liberation, and through raw and fearless discussions examine the Jewish relationship with Israel.
