I native woman celebrating Biden who is currently committing genocide on the native population of Palestine is just fucking mind blowing. The sheer and utter wilful ignorance of Americans will just never cease to amaze me.
Yes while Obama didn't directly perpetuate genocide as Biden has done. with more conviction than anything else he has done, Obama failed to act on the side of the Syrian people against Assad, who was also responsible for the massacre of Palestinians inside Syria at a refugee camp. The Obama government would only supply arms to those fighting ISIS while refusing to help those fighting units, which did exist, that were part of a grassroots resistance for democracy needing to overturn Assad in order to stop his mass murder of his own citizens. (Such units existed but by a point were decimated)
This is a false comparison. @EvKatz, you're saying Obama refrained from arming certain parties that were at war (armed conflict/genocide). With Biden, we are refusing to NOT ARM a government that both is acting against US interests and committing what most Human Rights agencies view as a genocide. Critiquing Obama for not intervening in a conflict, when said intervention would have further destabilized the entire globe as a comparison to arming the IDF as their leadership brings the entire ME to the precipice of war is a false comparison. I'd be perfectly fine if Biden up and decided, NOT TO ARM Israel and see what happens. That's actually what the majority of the world is asking for. While Obama is fair game for much criticism, criticisms for intervention, non-intervention, and active support/complicity shouldn't be made parallel.
I agree with u about the monstrous character of Bidens devotion to arming Israel and covering it up. Going into Syria further doesnt make sense here but it's not the same obviously but Palestinians were massacred there and it does matter that there was silence on that imo leaving it there
When U.S. Presidents stop supporting the Zionists...true, worldwide peace will occur. I fault both Obama and Biden for their overt or subtle support of an evil Zionist government in Israel. Sadly, Israel has not learned to peacefully co-exist in today's world.
Wait. What? Stopping American arms to Israel will bring about world peace? How? That wouldn't mean anything to Putin's war in Ukraine, or China's expansionist policy in the South China Sea, or the Houthis in Yemen, or the narcos in Central and South America, or, or, or..... stopping arms exports to Israel wouldn't even stop the genocide in Gaza. If simple solutions haven't brought world peace ever, why would you think it would work now? Stopping the war in VietNam certainly didn't bring about world peace, or the end of the USSR, or tearing down the Berlin Wall. Heck, WWII didn't bring about world peace.
Maybe it was a stretch to mention worldwide peace would occur...but...if nothing else...the Middle East would be reap the benefits. Extremism in the Middle East happens because Israel believes they are the superior people in the region. Treat people...your neighbors with respect...and they will reciprocate. Israel to date...has never show respect.
Domestically, Biden is far superior to Obama. The ACA practically made single-payer health care impossible. On foreign policy/actions both are war criminals, but Biden is worse since he was integral to Bush Sr in the Gulf War, the Bush Jr big lie with war in Afghanistan and Iraq and with Obama-H.Clinton/Kissinger in Libya, Syria, etc. But Biden’s eager complicity in genocide and crimes against humanity is incomprehensible to me.
@Andrew. I would disagree. It wasn't ACA that wrecked single-payer health care. It was the GOP. The GOP used their state legislatures, the judicial system, and congressional obstruction to do everything in their power to sabotage and gut the ACA. They didn't do this to fix it or help the American people, they did this to win political points by saying Obamacare was a problem. The GOP ensured that neither citizens nor insurance companies had a stable or predictable system or health-care environment. To this day, some states, to the detriment of their own citizens, have refused to extend Medicaid because? OBAMA. I agree with most of what you said, and have some serious issues with Obama. However, I think its disingenuous to blame ACA's impact on single-payer on him, when that was the victim of a decade long GOP platform: repeal and replace. If engaged somewhat sincerely, ACA would have likely worked WAY better and your single-payer wouldn't be the unicorn it is now...
@Art, good points. But remember, Obama gutted the single payer option before it was ever voted on. And when he did so, he lost support from several democrats whose votes were crucial. Do you remember that saga of Obama twisting Dennis Kucinich's arm to vote for an ACA with no single payer option? And it's not like it drew a single republican; they all still voted no, like they said they would. Let's be real, the establishment democrats have never demonstrated any desire for a single payer health care system. At least, not since Hillary Clinton was first lady in the mid 1990s. And after her battle with the crazed republicans and blue dog dems, she succumbed to the will of corporate donors and also became strongly anti-single payer. In fact, in 2016 Hillary Clinton was the 3rd largest recipient of REPUBLICAN big business donations. She received more republican money than most of the republican candidates.
But I strongly agree with you that republicans were a huge impediment regardless. The "No" congress. Even if Obama had passed a single-payer bill, they would have fought it just as strongly as they still fight the ACA (at one point, they were voting to repeal it an average of once per week).
I'm convinced though, that the blame for no single payer goes just as much to the democrats as the republicans. We're never going to get it unless we can elect someone who genuinely wants it. Biden was deeply opposed to single payer. Harris is also opposed. Sanders was passionate about it, and we see what they did to him. The dems literally held a "stop Bernie Sanders" meeting in late summer of 2019. And Obama pulled out all of the stops to end his surge in the democratic primaries in 2020, literally calling Warren, Pete, etc. and coordinating when they suspend their campaigns, all in an effort to stop Bernie Sanders. Warren literally stayed in the race just to siphon votes from Sanders. The democrats engaged in voter suppression during their own primaries both in 2016 and in 2020 to stop Bernie Sanders. And in 2016 -- I don't know if you'll remember this -- when the exit polling data revealed tampering with numbers, the democrats canceled the exit polls for the remainder of the primaries. Can't make this stuff up!
In conclusion, we could have had single payer by now if the democrats wanted it, even without republican support. But they don't want it.
@Think. No disputes at all. Like I intimated, I have a number if criticisms for Obama. And yes, him trying to be diplomatic, use ideas from both sides, appeal to the GOP, and treat his opponents with respect was a serious downfall. Had he come in and approached the GOP like they him, I think th single-payer, Medicare for all options, etc other options would have been do-able. I, in no way, want to suggest ACA was perfect or radical. I just want to make sure that folks understand that his good gesture of faith in the republic, was returned with divisive hate. ACA is an updated Romney plan! Yet, if implemented in good faith a later transition to something more encompassing would have been feasible. I'm torn. The best thing he could have done was to ram thru generational legislation as soon as he got in. Didn't need to sell it to US public, didn't need to include GOP. Then again, that would mean he wasn't the man that he was and would have been way worse. All the hate from GOP would be justified. His respect and naive faith in America is what undermined a lot of his success. No. Good. Deed.
I was legit flowing with what Andrew was saying before you gave your part Art. I do remember Georgia gutting ACA extensively throughout the past decade plus. I don't think most Georgians carry health insurance anymore because ACA isn't even something that would make sense with the lack of availability (and lack of enforcement on providers and networks).
So I actually change my min - I agree with you. ACA didn't fail us (and therefore Obama). I do believe it was the GOP.
Both Obama and Biden were in office for terrible wars. However, Obama was the more peaceful of the two. He voted against the Iraq War in the Senate, disdained Netanyahu, who disliked him back, because of Bibi's opposition to the Iran Nuclear Deal. He did not see him on Netanyahu's visit to Washington. Biden, on the other hand, has always been a militarist, and supported wars--including Iraq. He said that he was a "proud Irish Zionist," and went to Israel after October 7. He has since supported Netanyahu with many millions of dollars--perhaps billions--and weapons of war, including 2,000 lb bombs. He is still sending them. At the DNC last night he spoke of too many people being killed in the Gaza war--on both sides. Not really!
Neither. Biden was more transformational than Obama once you saw beyond the hype-domestically. Both are equally guilty of genocide…Biden brazenly a Zionist and guilty of genocide but the same neocons ran the Adminstration. Obama had Hillary Clinton and Biden has the shameless Zionist Blinken…both pushing the same raw politics of hegemony and murder. I am very disillusioned with Obamas’ BS and Gaza opened my eyes with Biden’s blanket support of Israel violating all international norms and protocols. The end game is tje same: Democrats lead us into wars and Republicans into economic collapse decimating the working class.
So... what would you do? Easy to criticize. It sounds to me that the people so passionately demonstrating to stop the genocide in Gaza are so focused on one solution (stop arms to Israel) that they are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Compromise is not a sell out.... it's the only way to negotiate any sort of solution, especially since the demonstrators have absolutely no power, no bargaining chips, and no actual solutions to offer.
@NLTownie, If you believe your ending sentence, then there's nothing we can do. Fascism/Imperialism/Genocide is inevitable with either party running the helm. It's just a question of how quickly it happens and which demographics get to be "in." With republicans, we preserve the "white male christian power structure" (in the words of Bill O Reilly fuming about brown people diluting the country), and those who faithfully support it will be rewarded. With the democrats, even black women can be war mongers, corporatists, and war profiteers.
If I had to choose one, I'd choose the democrats. Right now, I choose neither.
Also, you literally typed one of the solutions "(stop arms to Israel)" and there's also BDS, sanctions, calls for independent investigations, calls to arrest Netanyahu and charge him for war crimes, calls for a cease fire, calls to allow aide into Gaza, calls for a 2-state solution, to name just a few. I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the demonstrators offer no solutions, especially when you literally mentioned one of their solutions earlier in your comment. Also worth noting that both the democrat and republican leaders currently oppose each of these actions.
well you are only asking domestically. my take is that the ACA which is so heralded was done in opposition to the popular sentiment for a M4all type solution, according to Ryan Grim's book which I found credible (We got people) Obama operated behind the scene to make sure there would be no public option for obvious reasons. ACA also established the idea of Accountable Care Organizations (ACOs) which Biden-Harris have gone to town with, but most folks don't know the game where they put forward what they have one, whereas the main thrust is more and more privatization deals limiting options we used to have under Medicare and even Medicaid original. So on the one topic that I can address meaningfully, but it's a big one, it was really not what people deserved, no we are not in general going in the right direction. PNHP organization has tried to work on ACO issue, as well as Medicare Advantage, in order advocate for single payor public health care for all. Even watching Jon Oliver's last segment about how the private hospice industry is ripping off defrauding and endangering the health of people all across the country is another evidence that No healthcare for profit, especially as its done in USA is horrible. Only the rich can get reliably good health care with the growth of concierge service dumping the rest of us in one or another form of managed care that consumers don't even understand..
I don't have any more respect for any of these two presidents or any others of the past who had served other countrie's interest much more than the people of this country. Both parties infact have corrupted political culture of America. We badly need salvage this Nation from drowning further. We need a revolution like the happened in Bangladesh and we urge all the American students to
take the lead in this students& people's mass upsurge, sooner than later.
I graduated high school and walked out into the Great Recession. Took out student loans because there was such high unemployment, you needed a bachelors for entry level work. Especially big corporations knew, big pool of unemployed means underemployment for people with degrees is necessary for the worker that has to provide for themselves or family. I went into the military after living in my car for 2 semesters that would be necessary just to achieve underemployment in the recession. Obama pulled us out of that. I still have to say Biden though. 4 years to do what he did domestically and what the infrastructure bill will do for our future and next generations to come is incredible. The pair of them represent something greater than our economy. They represent a society that lifts up everyone together. I cried at the standing ovation Joe received last night.
Such different contexts. Each was the right person for their historical moment. Obama brought inspiration and clarity. Biden brought relief, consolation (for many), and competence.
When speaking domestically, I think people have forgotten the Great Recession. The United States was literally on the verge of collapse. Yes, COVID was a significant crisis, but as a nation we didn't handle it well and had global models to follow. Plus, the most critical point of the Pandemic occurred under Trump, so Biden was able to reverse course and learn from Trump's mistakes and work. The economy crashed during Obama's election and his administration's response was critical to there still being a US. Biden and Democrats critiqued Trump for their border policy but have largely moved to the right on the border and didn't overturn all of Trump's border policies. A number of the student loan/debt relief policies have benefitted BANKS more than actual students. The banks have been able to write off a number of loans that were never going to be paid back. Biden's policies have cannibalized the sale of electric vehicles as thanks to their policies virtually all the available electric vehicles fail to qualify for rebates/tax incentives. Then, Obama and the ACA was a huge accomplishment. GOP, 12-15 years later are still trying to gut it and are slowly accepting that it is the reality. Ledbetter Fairpay Act and the ACA, I believe, are much more substantive. As opposed to Biden, who I think a number of his policies look good on paper with less meaningful impact on Americans. Among Obamas other huge domestic impacts are with the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell, the end of DOMA, inclusion of same-sex partners to have rights within ACA, and eventual legalization of same-sex marriage, which his policies and administration made huge gains on as soon as they arrived in the White House. In terms of impacts on US society and lasting impact, its hard for me to compare Biden and Obama domestic policy. Biden has shown himself to be a hypocrite. He was fine with protests during Trump presidency but has demonized and weaponized his pulpit to condemn Pro-Palestinian, Pro-Ceasefire, and anti-genocide protesters. Biden has overseen the attack of Universities and their academic freedom. His press office is almost as bad as Sean Spicer under Trump. They have way less credibility than Obama's press office. Once Biden finishes his term, he will have been a successful (though genocidal) president with a positive domestic record. However, he served during and we live in the age of Obama. By far, I believe Obama dealt with more complicated dilemmas and did a better (though problematic) job of dealing with them. Biden has had less impact and dealt with less complex (though still complicated) issues. I think Obama would have done a much better job if president now, and I'm terrified where we would be right now if Biden was president in 2008. Then, to remember that it was Biden who was (partially) responsible for submarining Obama's ME policy with Israel, yeah no. I'll take Obama.
And, I forgot to even mention DACA/DREAMERS! Oh my goodness, how much we take Obama's tenure for granted! So much of this has become ingrained as commonplace:
American Recovery & Save America Acts (had its problems but was crucial)
ACA (didn't go far enough (DGFE) but was CRUCIAL & progressed 4/5 decade problem)
DACA (had holes, DGFE but was crucucial and progressed 3/4 decade problem)
repealed Don't Ask/Don't Tell & stopped enforcing DOMA
Appointed Kagan/Sotomayor
It was also under Obama, that for-profit college schemes, diploma mills, and exploitative higher-learning institutions were prosecuted, closed, and forced to shift practices. This, too, has drastically changed the society we live in.
Biden. He sucks at Israel/Palestine, I know. But the very idea that a person, any person, could become more progressive in their f'ing 80s is as close to a miracle as I've ever seen. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he did more good than I expected and worked hard. I wish he would wake up about Israel, it's like FDR and internment camps. So much good tamped down by doing something atrocious.
Domestically? Well they each handled domestic crises in admirable ways, leaning on good policy and pulling us out of a recession and housing crisis and then covid and post Trump economy. But I prefer Obama for the steps he took to secure a relationship with Iran and for his efforts on climate. As much as I respect Biden for his many decades of service, I cannot forgive his hypocritical stance on Israel and blatant disregard for the Palestinian people.
Biden. Obama was a terrible negotiator, and a representative of the right of centre neoliberal politics that allowed Trump to ride a (disingenuous) populist wave into the White House.
Obama also intervened and ordered Holder NOT to prosecute the bank executives behind the 2008 financial crisis, and similarly NOT to prosecute the CIA torturers of the Dubya era.
His only lasting impact was in U.S. healthcare, but he even fucked that up by giving up all sorts of (unnecessary) concessions to Republicans, only to have them still vote en masse against the plan.
Obama was a great orator & campaigner but was utterly useless at the actual job.
He wouldn't bat an eyelid before bombing hospitals and brown people like me. So...NO Genocide Joe, Nope to zionism
I native woman celebrating Biden who is currently committing genocide on the native population of Palestine is just fucking mind blowing. The sheer and utter wilful ignorance of Americans will just never cease to amaze me.
Legacy of genocide
Yes while Obama didn't directly perpetuate genocide as Biden has done. with more conviction than anything else he has done, Obama failed to act on the side of the Syrian people against Assad, who was also responsible for the massacre of Palestinians inside Syria at a refugee camp. The Obama government would only supply arms to those fighting ISIS while refusing to help those fighting units, which did exist, that were part of a grassroots resistance for democracy needing to overturn Assad in order to stop his mass murder of his own citizens. (Such units existed but by a point were decimated)
This is a false comparison. @EvKatz, you're saying Obama refrained from arming certain parties that were at war (armed conflict/genocide). With Biden, we are refusing to NOT ARM a government that both is acting against US interests and committing what most Human Rights agencies view as a genocide. Critiquing Obama for not intervening in a conflict, when said intervention would have further destabilized the entire globe as a comparison to arming the IDF as their leadership brings the entire ME to the precipice of war is a false comparison. I'd be perfectly fine if Biden up and decided, NOT TO ARM Israel and see what happens. That's actually what the majority of the world is asking for. While Obama is fair game for much criticism, criticisms for intervention, non-intervention, and active support/complicity shouldn't be made parallel.
I agree with u about the monstrous character of Bidens devotion to arming Israel and covering it up. Going into Syria further doesnt make sense here but it's not the same obviously but Palestinians were massacred there and it does matter that there was silence on that imo leaving it there
That is what he is going to take with him to the grave, not to mention the crimes against the Iraqi people.
When U.S. Presidents stop supporting the Zionists...true, worldwide peace will occur. I fault both Obama and Biden for their overt or subtle support of an evil Zionist government in Israel. Sadly, Israel has not learned to peacefully co-exist in today's world.
Wait. What? Stopping American arms to Israel will bring about world peace? How? That wouldn't mean anything to Putin's war in Ukraine, or China's expansionist policy in the South China Sea, or the Houthis in Yemen, or the narcos in Central and South America, or, or, or..... stopping arms exports to Israel wouldn't even stop the genocide in Gaza. If simple solutions haven't brought world peace ever, why would you think it would work now? Stopping the war in VietNam certainly didn't bring about world peace, or the end of the USSR, or tearing down the Berlin Wall. Heck, WWII didn't bring about world peace.
Maybe it was a stretch to mention worldwide peace would occur...but...if nothing else...the Middle East would be reap the benefits. Extremism in the Middle East happens because Israel believes they are the superior people in the region. Treat people...your neighbors with respect...and they will reciprocate. Israel to date...has never show respect.
Domestically, Biden is far superior to Obama. The ACA practically made single-payer health care impossible. On foreign policy/actions both are war criminals, but Biden is worse since he was integral to Bush Sr in the Gulf War, the Bush Jr big lie with war in Afghanistan and Iraq and with Obama-H.Clinton/Kissinger in Libya, Syria, etc. But Biden’s eager complicity in genocide and crimes against humanity is incomprehensible to me.
@Andrew. I would disagree. It wasn't ACA that wrecked single-payer health care. It was the GOP. The GOP used their state legislatures, the judicial system, and congressional obstruction to do everything in their power to sabotage and gut the ACA. They didn't do this to fix it or help the American people, they did this to win political points by saying Obamacare was a problem. The GOP ensured that neither citizens nor insurance companies had a stable or predictable system or health-care environment. To this day, some states, to the detriment of their own citizens, have refused to extend Medicaid because? OBAMA. I agree with most of what you said, and have some serious issues with Obama. However, I think its disingenuous to blame ACA's impact on single-payer on him, when that was the victim of a decade long GOP platform: repeal and replace. If engaged somewhat sincerely, ACA would have likely worked WAY better and your single-payer wouldn't be the unicorn it is now...
@Art, good points. But remember, Obama gutted the single payer option before it was ever voted on. And when he did so, he lost support from several democrats whose votes were crucial. Do you remember that saga of Obama twisting Dennis Kucinich's arm to vote for an ACA with no single payer option? And it's not like it drew a single republican; they all still voted no, like they said they would. Let's be real, the establishment democrats have never demonstrated any desire for a single payer health care system. At least, not since Hillary Clinton was first lady in the mid 1990s. And after her battle with the crazed republicans and blue dog dems, she succumbed to the will of corporate donors and also became strongly anti-single payer. In fact, in 2016 Hillary Clinton was the 3rd largest recipient of REPUBLICAN big business donations. She received more republican money than most of the republican candidates.
But I strongly agree with you that republicans were a huge impediment regardless. The "No" congress. Even if Obama had passed a single-payer bill, they would have fought it just as strongly as they still fight the ACA (at one point, they were voting to repeal it an average of once per week).
I'm convinced though, that the blame for no single payer goes just as much to the democrats as the republicans. We're never going to get it unless we can elect someone who genuinely wants it. Biden was deeply opposed to single payer. Harris is also opposed. Sanders was passionate about it, and we see what they did to him. The dems literally held a "stop Bernie Sanders" meeting in late summer of 2019. And Obama pulled out all of the stops to end his surge in the democratic primaries in 2020, literally calling Warren, Pete, etc. and coordinating when they suspend their campaigns, all in an effort to stop Bernie Sanders. Warren literally stayed in the race just to siphon votes from Sanders. The democrats engaged in voter suppression during their own primaries both in 2016 and in 2020 to stop Bernie Sanders. And in 2016 -- I don't know if you'll remember this -- when the exit polling data revealed tampering with numbers, the democrats canceled the exit polls for the remainder of the primaries. Can't make this stuff up!
In conclusion, we could have had single payer by now if the democrats wanted it, even without republican support. But they don't want it.
@Think. No disputes at all. Like I intimated, I have a number if criticisms for Obama. And yes, him trying to be diplomatic, use ideas from both sides, appeal to the GOP, and treat his opponents with respect was a serious downfall. Had he come in and approached the GOP like they him, I think th single-payer, Medicare for all options, etc other options would have been do-able. I, in no way, want to suggest ACA was perfect or radical. I just want to make sure that folks understand that his good gesture of faith in the republic, was returned with divisive hate. ACA is an updated Romney plan! Yet, if implemented in good faith a later transition to something more encompassing would have been feasible. I'm torn. The best thing he could have done was to ram thru generational legislation as soon as he got in. Didn't need to sell it to US public, didn't need to include GOP. Then again, that would mean he wasn't the man that he was and would have been way worse. All the hate from GOP would be justified. His respect and naive faith in America is what undermined a lot of his success. No. Good. Deed.
I was legit flowing with what Andrew was saying before you gave your part Art. I do remember Georgia gutting ACA extensively throughout the past decade plus. I don't think most Georgians carry health insurance anymore because ACA isn't even something that would make sense with the lack of availability (and lack of enforcement on providers and networks).
So I actually change my min - I agree with you. ACA didn't fail us (and therefore Obama). I do believe it was the GOP.
Both Obama and Biden were in office for terrible wars. However, Obama was the more peaceful of the two. He voted against the Iraq War in the Senate, disdained Netanyahu, who disliked him back, because of Bibi's opposition to the Iran Nuclear Deal. He did not see him on Netanyahu's visit to Washington. Biden, on the other hand, has always been a militarist, and supported wars--including Iraq. He said that he was a "proud Irish Zionist," and went to Israel after October 7. He has since supported Netanyahu with many millions of dollars--perhaps billions--and weapons of war, including 2,000 lb bombs. He is still sending them. At the DNC last night he spoke of too many people being killed in the Gaza war--on both sides. Not really!
They can both go to hell.
Neither. Biden was more transformational than Obama once you saw beyond the hype-domestically. Both are equally guilty of genocide…Biden brazenly a Zionist and guilty of genocide but the same neocons ran the Adminstration. Obama had Hillary Clinton and Biden has the shameless Zionist Blinken…both pushing the same raw politics of hegemony and murder. I am very disillusioned with Obamas’ BS and Gaza opened my eyes with Biden’s blanket support of Israel violating all international norms and protocols. The end game is tje same: Democrats lead us into wars and Republicans into economic collapse decimating the working class.
So... what would you do? Easy to criticize. It sounds to me that the people so passionately demonstrating to stop the genocide in Gaza are so focused on one solution (stop arms to Israel) that they are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Compromise is not a sell out.... it's the only way to negotiate any sort of solution, especially since the demonstrators have absolutely no power, no bargaining chips, and no actual solutions to offer.
@NLTownie, If you believe your ending sentence, then there's nothing we can do. Fascism/Imperialism/Genocide is inevitable with either party running the helm. It's just a question of how quickly it happens and which demographics get to be "in." With republicans, we preserve the "white male christian power structure" (in the words of Bill O Reilly fuming about brown people diluting the country), and those who faithfully support it will be rewarded. With the democrats, even black women can be war mongers, corporatists, and war profiteers.
If I had to choose one, I'd choose the democrats. Right now, I choose neither.
Also, you literally typed one of the solutions "(stop arms to Israel)" and there's also BDS, sanctions, calls for independent investigations, calls to arrest Netanyahu and charge him for war crimes, calls for a cease fire, calls to allow aide into Gaza, calls for a 2-state solution, to name just a few. I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the demonstrators offer no solutions, especially when you literally mentioned one of their solutions earlier in your comment. Also worth noting that both the democrat and republican leaders currently oppose each of these actions.
well you are only asking domestically. my take is that the ACA which is so heralded was done in opposition to the popular sentiment for a M4all type solution, according to Ryan Grim's book which I found credible (We got people) Obama operated behind the scene to make sure there would be no public option for obvious reasons. ACA also established the idea of Accountable Care Organizations (ACOs) which Biden-Harris have gone to town with, but most folks don't know the game where they put forward what they have one, whereas the main thrust is more and more privatization deals limiting options we used to have under Medicare and even Medicaid original. So on the one topic that I can address meaningfully, but it's a big one, it was really not what people deserved, no we are not in general going in the right direction. PNHP organization has tried to work on ACO issue, as well as Medicare Advantage, in order advocate for single payor public health care for all. Even watching Jon Oliver's last segment about how the private hospice industry is ripping off defrauding and endangering the health of people all across the country is another evidence that No healthcare for profit, especially as its done in USA is horrible. Only the rich can get reliably good health care with the growth of concierge service dumping the rest of us in one or another form of managed care that consumers don't even understand..
I don't have any more respect for any of these two presidents or any others of the past who had served other countrie's interest much more than the people of this country. Both parties infact have corrupted political culture of America. We badly need salvage this Nation from drowning further. We need a revolution like the happened in Bangladesh and we urge all the American students to
take the lead in this students& people's mass upsurge, sooner than later.
I graduated high school and walked out into the Great Recession. Took out student loans because there was such high unemployment, you needed a bachelors for entry level work. Especially big corporations knew, big pool of unemployed means underemployment for people with degrees is necessary for the worker that has to provide for themselves or family. I went into the military after living in my car for 2 semesters that would be necessary just to achieve underemployment in the recession. Obama pulled us out of that. I still have to say Biden though. 4 years to do what he did domestically and what the infrastructure bill will do for our future and next generations to come is incredible. The pair of them represent something greater than our economy. They represent a society that lifts up everyone together. I cried at the standing ovation Joe received last night.
Such different contexts. Each was the right person for their historical moment. Obama brought inspiration and clarity. Biden brought relief, consolation (for many), and competence.
When speaking domestically, I think people have forgotten the Great Recession. The United States was literally on the verge of collapse. Yes, COVID was a significant crisis, but as a nation we didn't handle it well and had global models to follow. Plus, the most critical point of the Pandemic occurred under Trump, so Biden was able to reverse course and learn from Trump's mistakes and work. The economy crashed during Obama's election and his administration's response was critical to there still being a US. Biden and Democrats critiqued Trump for their border policy but have largely moved to the right on the border and didn't overturn all of Trump's border policies. A number of the student loan/debt relief policies have benefitted BANKS more than actual students. The banks have been able to write off a number of loans that were never going to be paid back. Biden's policies have cannibalized the sale of electric vehicles as thanks to their policies virtually all the available electric vehicles fail to qualify for rebates/tax incentives. Then, Obama and the ACA was a huge accomplishment. GOP, 12-15 years later are still trying to gut it and are slowly accepting that it is the reality. Ledbetter Fairpay Act and the ACA, I believe, are much more substantive. As opposed to Biden, who I think a number of his policies look good on paper with less meaningful impact on Americans. Among Obamas other huge domestic impacts are with the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell, the end of DOMA, inclusion of same-sex partners to have rights within ACA, and eventual legalization of same-sex marriage, which his policies and administration made huge gains on as soon as they arrived in the White House. In terms of impacts on US society and lasting impact, its hard for me to compare Biden and Obama domestic policy. Biden has shown himself to be a hypocrite. He was fine with protests during Trump presidency but has demonized and weaponized his pulpit to condemn Pro-Palestinian, Pro-Ceasefire, and anti-genocide protesters. Biden has overseen the attack of Universities and their academic freedom. His press office is almost as bad as Sean Spicer under Trump. They have way less credibility than Obama's press office. Once Biden finishes his term, he will have been a successful (though genocidal) president with a positive domestic record. However, he served during and we live in the age of Obama. By far, I believe Obama dealt with more complicated dilemmas and did a better (though problematic) job of dealing with them. Biden has had less impact and dealt with less complex (though still complicated) issues. I think Obama would have done a much better job if president now, and I'm terrified where we would be right now if Biden was president in 2008. Then, to remember that it was Biden who was (partially) responsible for submarining Obama's ME policy with Israel, yeah no. I'll take Obama.
And, I forgot to even mention DACA/DREAMERS! Oh my goodness, how much we take Obama's tenure for granted! So much of this has become ingrained as commonplace:
American Recovery & Save America Acts (had its problems but was crucial)
ACA (didn't go far enough (DGFE) but was CRUCIAL & progressed 4/5 decade problem)
DACA (had holes, DGFE but was crucucial and progressed 3/4 decade problem)
repealed Don't Ask/Don't Tell & stopped enforcing DOMA
Appointed Kagan/Sotomayor
It was also under Obama, that for-profit college schemes, diploma mills, and exploitative higher-learning institutions were prosecuted, closed, and forced to shift practices. This, too, has drastically changed the society we live in.
Biden. He sucks at Israel/Palestine, I know. But the very idea that a person, any person, could become more progressive in their f'ing 80s is as close to a miracle as I've ever seen. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he did more good than I expected and worked hard. I wish he would wake up about Israel, it's like FDR and internment camps. So much good tamped down by doing something atrocious.
Domestically? Well they each handled domestic crises in admirable ways, leaning on good policy and pulling us out of a recession and housing crisis and then covid and post Trump economy. But I prefer Obama for the steps he took to secure a relationship with Iran and for his efforts on climate. As much as I respect Biden for his many decades of service, I cannot forgive his hypocritical stance on Israel and blatant disregard for the Palestinian people.
Biden. Obama was a terrible negotiator, and a representative of the right of centre neoliberal politics that allowed Trump to ride a (disingenuous) populist wave into the White House.
Obama also intervened and ordered Holder NOT to prosecute the bank executives behind the 2008 financial crisis, and similarly NOT to prosecute the CIA torturers of the Dubya era.
His only lasting impact was in U.S. healthcare, but he even fucked that up by giving up all sorts of (unnecessary) concessions to Republicans, only to have them still vote en masse against the plan.
Obama was a great orator & campaigner but was utterly useless at the actual job.