Yep. Clearly the strategy for Vance tonight was to lie about his stands on issues. He almost seemed as though he was playing a Democrat. Very scary times, made scarier by Biden’/Harris’ insistence that the genocide of children is justified. Absolutely disgusting. They are playing to lose!
Truly frustrating. The bar is so low related to Israel, and yet Democrats just can’t bring themselves to even say that they would support an arms embargo.
I really wanted Walz to draw attention to the idiocy of Vance saying Kamala did this and Kamala did that with, “I dunno, if I were Donald Trump, I think I’d be worried. It wood appear that his running mate doesn’t really comprehend the responsibilities of the office he’s seeking. He seems to be under the misguided impression that is the VP that ribs the show.”
I think the strategy from both candidate's campaign directors was: don't take any risks, don't rock the boat. This made it a rather stiff and boring program (not a debate), where both sides agreed to call a momentary truce since neither wants to be blamed for their candidate's loss in November. And, anyway, debates don't have that big of an impact on elections.
In any case, I don't think Walz would have been good at going on the attack with Vance because that's not where his strength lies. So I think I agree with their calculation from a campaign strategist perspective. Vance benefited most from that strategy and it did seem to make Walz look weak, since he is best on social media and at community rallies.
These debates are just public spectacles. We can't expect much of them. This was boring. I think that was the strategy---and it worked.
After I listened to Walz’ opening statements, voicing support for Israel without question or conditions, I turned it off. No more of this while Netanyahu continues his killing spree and land grab. I will not vote this November.
Nearly turned it off/threw up when I heard the moderators’ first question. Like saying Ukraine sent drones into Russia, without mentioning the 2 year invasion that preceded it.
I thought Walz was pathetic-- A reflection of the DNC's total disconnect with the base- He missed most of the opportunities to provide the facts. Abortion: should have stated % of Americans who favor it, should have jumped on Vance's admission of not representing his constituency and how handing it to the States = empowering GOP gerrymandered, voter suppressors to outlaw it & reject even ballot initiatives. Springfield, OH- should have been a slam dunk: the Haitians were welcomed & rebuilt the economy- Eating pets was a LIE as per police et al- Guns: AR-15's are OK? And for minors? Tariffs: would increase prices + inflation = recession. Housing: big corps buying up + fixing prices. Federal lands? Where are they? Near cities, jobs, schools...? Immigration: Trump separated families, sent children across the country with almost no records- Kept in cages in the elements--How many are still missing? And halting climate change is off the menu: the answer is reducing fossil fuel use. But that would weaken our military superiority! Heaven forbid! Corporate Democrats are completely out of touch with their base- Don't know how to provide the facts to the general population. Walz was talking to an inner circle- just dropped key words without telling people what that meant-- Missed a golden opportunity to enlighten the public-
I understand your frustration with Walz’s style of debate, Medhi. But, with respect, I think you may be looking at it more through a British than an American lens. In Britain, Oxford Union-style debate is noted for the stylish evisceration of an opponent. Question Time in Parliament is a combative, sometime withering, affair. US political culture is different and that is particularly relevant thirty days out from a National election when all of the voters influenced primarily by ideology or policy have committed. The undecideds and the persuadables are overwhelming those who choose (IF they choose) on the basis of personality and “relatableness.” On that dimension, Walz’s self-deprecation, humility and apparent search for “common ground” are decisive advantages at this late stage of the game. My guess is that Walz’s net favorable rating will rise significantly even if most surveys show division on who “won.”
So Walz was prepped and disciplined about being positive pro-Harris and not attacking Vance, who’s impossibly weak, corrupt and easily exposed. Nance was prepped and disciplined about being smarmy (thank you weight-loss drugs) and sounding reasonable.
The MSNBC troupe roundly gave the debate to Walz. But they avoided some glaring bits, even as they criticized Vance’s major gaffes (couldn’t say Trump lost; lying about wanting a national abortion ban) and Walz being too boxed in by his preppers until late in debate.
BUT:
1. hurricane tears—But Project 2025 eliminates FEMA! Tim Walz goddamnit!!!! This was way early question. Walz let Vance slide, no one tied Vance to actual proposed Trump/Vance policy that would gut fed ability to prepare for and respond to such devastation. Walz needed to say, Vance’s position on disasters is, “You’re on your own.”
2. “common sense”—whose? my common sense is that if a person says they’ll make up a story to get people’s attention on a topic, that means they’re a liar who’ll use any means to get what they want, no matter who gets hurt (in fact enjoying and reveling in who gets hurt). Liar, sadist, seditionist.
3. experts—Who? what experts said offshoring was way to go but those who stood to profit from slave wages? PROFITEERS AREN’T experts at anything but the skim and the con. The GOP and GOP-lite Dems, in deference to corporate America, drove the gutting of our mfg sector. Which btw Biden/Harris is helping rebuild. But JDV does listen to one kind of expert, billionaire wannabe oligarchs like his patron and groomer Thiel. Whose only expertise was being first to market with online payments platform PayPal, along with Elon; everything else purchased with that gelt.
I was pleasantly surprised the debate was civil. That’s a positive. I thought Walz was understandably nervous in the beginning, but was able to gain more confidence as the debate progressed. I thought he was able to make some good points and was especially impressive targeting Vance with the near final question of “do you think DJT won the 2020 election.” (Though JD shirted that answer)
I AM NO FAN OF VANCE, TO SAY I AM REPULSED BY HIM IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT. But, for people on the fence, he did come across fairly likeable, a good actor. I don’t think the VP debate will sway too many voters one way or another, though my fingers are crossed for WALZ.
Have to vote for Harris/Waltz but I dream that their non-answer answers on Gaza & growing in the surrounding areas are because the cloak from current administration on Israel is too heavy. I cannot turn on a faucet without seeing small children catching drips of water from anything that is dripping.. I weep & am shrouded in guilt.. this cruelty is not human behavior even animals are better than this.
I’ve asked this question a million fucking times (well not here HOL) but of others with a pro Gaza Substack “show”, who will remain anonymous until I can’t take not getting an answer anymore!! HOL .. but why is Joe Biden letting Netanyahu get away with war crimes? No one can seem to answer that question. But as a very early annual subscriber, Mehdi, (say this next part in Mehdi’s British accent, which I love btw and with his demeanor!) I demand an answer!!!!! HOL Is it because they want Netanyahu to bomb the shit out of everyone without our involvement on the ground? Is it because there is some military repercussion the U.S. would face if we stopped sending weapons to Israel?
I believe AIPAC is a major problem. Politicians fear losing its support and jeopardizing their careers if they stand up for Palestine. I checked an AIPAC funding tracker and was shocked by how many politicians receive funding from them. Only a few have opted out. It’s completely immoral for a foreign entity to manipulate and bribe U.S. politicians to push an Israeli agenda. We know the consequences—mass atrocities, and now Lebanon may be next. To fix this, we need to remove big money from politics. We won’t have a true democracy until that happens.
Thank you for your reply. I agree money should be taken out of politics also.
How much money is it? AIPAC says they have 3 million members which doesn’t sound like a lot of people but it’s hard to believe all of them are in agreement with Netanyahu’s war, or am I naïve? I’m just tired of this shit. It’s hard to believe that fear of losing donations or votes is allowing this to continue. MEDHI?? Where is your answer???? HOL
This is the same unanswered question I’ve asked a number of times … it’s not only AIPAC….
Maybe in is an airbase in bombing distance of China & Russian,
I heard we are building a military jet refueling station there right now…
I think Gaza touches the Red Sea, I’ve heard there are mineral or oil resources in the Bay…
I think Israel doesn’t touch shipping routes anywhere…
Axis of power alliances are shifting. North Korea, China, Russia & Iran are all neighbors… and supposedly co-operating in getting arms to Russia for Ukraine invasion and perhaps nuclear technology to Iran & North Korea in exchange…
Who can say? Mehdi can… or someone who helps with these streams. I very much want to know.
Thank you for this debate of the debate. I couldn't watch it past the first question. What a horror! Why must we all agree to bomb Iran? I can't and never would vote for Trump, but are Harris/Walz just going to keep sending bombs to the mideast? How does one vote for genocide? Of course Trump will continue to send bombs as well. I think there are many more people who feel as I do, and we are not the lost voter demographic of Muslims and the young. That the Democrats could lose is a very real possibility, and they've done it to themselves.
Yep. Clearly the strategy for Vance tonight was to lie about his stands on issues. He almost seemed as though he was playing a Democrat. Very scary times, made scarier by Biden’/Harris’ insistence that the genocide of children is justified. Absolutely disgusting. They are playing to lose!
Truly frustrating. The bar is so low related to Israel, and yet Democrats just can’t bring themselves to even say that they would support an arms embargo.
I really wanted Walz to draw attention to the idiocy of Vance saying Kamala did this and Kamala did that with, “I dunno, if I were Donald Trump, I think I’d be worried. It wood appear that his running mate doesn’t really comprehend the responsibilities of the office he’s seeking. He seems to be under the misguided impression that is the VP that ribs the show.”
Outstanding debate analysis and conversation! Yes, disown Netanyahu!
I think the strategy from both candidate's campaign directors was: don't take any risks, don't rock the boat. This made it a rather stiff and boring program (not a debate), where both sides agreed to call a momentary truce since neither wants to be blamed for their candidate's loss in November. And, anyway, debates don't have that big of an impact on elections.
In any case, I don't think Walz would have been good at going on the attack with Vance because that's not where his strength lies. So I think I agree with their calculation from a campaign strategist perspective. Vance benefited most from that strategy and it did seem to make Walz look weak, since he is best on social media and at community rallies.
These debates are just public spectacles. We can't expect much of them. This was boring. I think that was the strategy---and it worked.
Yesterday's performance of the press at the debate is the reason why I support Zeteo.
Keep up the good work and keep asking the tough questions.
There was not a peep about the lives of the Palestinians and the Lebanese.
For sure I am seriously considering Dr. Jill Stein's ticket.
The lesser of the two evils still is evil. How can one knowingly vote for EVIL which is supporting the Genocide in Gaza?
After I listened to Walz’ opening statements, voicing support for Israel without question or conditions, I turned it off. No more of this while Netanyahu continues his killing spree and land grab. I will not vote this November.
I didn’t even get that far! Made myself some cocoa and read a murder mystery. I don’t know how long my sanity will last….
Trump appreciates and approves this statement!
Interesting that Vance did a 180 on his personality vibe. What was his strategy? Trying to win the woman and independent vote? Sadly, Walz was weak.
That seemed to have been the course correction. Pro-family misogyny.
Nearly turned it off/threw up when I heard the moderators’ first question. Like saying Ukraine sent drones into Russia, without mentioning the 2 year invasion that preceded it.
I thought Walz was pathetic-- A reflection of the DNC's total disconnect with the base- He missed most of the opportunities to provide the facts. Abortion: should have stated % of Americans who favor it, should have jumped on Vance's admission of not representing his constituency and how handing it to the States = empowering GOP gerrymandered, voter suppressors to outlaw it & reject even ballot initiatives. Springfield, OH- should have been a slam dunk: the Haitians were welcomed & rebuilt the economy- Eating pets was a LIE as per police et al- Guns: AR-15's are OK? And for minors? Tariffs: would increase prices + inflation = recession. Housing: big corps buying up + fixing prices. Federal lands? Where are they? Near cities, jobs, schools...? Immigration: Trump separated families, sent children across the country with almost no records- Kept in cages in the elements--How many are still missing? And halting climate change is off the menu: the answer is reducing fossil fuel use. But that would weaken our military superiority! Heaven forbid! Corporate Democrats are completely out of touch with their base- Don't know how to provide the facts to the general population. Walz was talking to an inner circle- just dropped key words without telling people what that meant-- Missed a golden opportunity to enlighten the public-
Good capture Victoria, thank you.
I understand your frustration with Walz’s style of debate, Medhi. But, with respect, I think you may be looking at it more through a British than an American lens. In Britain, Oxford Union-style debate is noted for the stylish evisceration of an opponent. Question Time in Parliament is a combative, sometime withering, affair. US political culture is different and that is particularly relevant thirty days out from a National election when all of the voters influenced primarily by ideology or policy have committed. The undecideds and the persuadables are overwhelming those who choose (IF they choose) on the basis of personality and “relatableness.” On that dimension, Walz’s self-deprecation, humility and apparent search for “common ground” are decisive advantages at this late stage of the game. My guess is that Walz’s net favorable rating will rise significantly even if most surveys show division on who “won.”
So Walz was prepped and disciplined about being positive pro-Harris and not attacking Vance, who’s impossibly weak, corrupt and easily exposed. Nance was prepped and disciplined about being smarmy (thank you weight-loss drugs) and sounding reasonable.
The MSNBC troupe roundly gave the debate to Walz. But they avoided some glaring bits, even as they criticized Vance’s major gaffes (couldn’t say Trump lost; lying about wanting a national abortion ban) and Walz being too boxed in by his preppers until late in debate.
BUT:
1. hurricane tears—But Project 2025 eliminates FEMA! Tim Walz goddamnit!!!! This was way early question. Walz let Vance slide, no one tied Vance to actual proposed Trump/Vance policy that would gut fed ability to prepare for and respond to such devastation. Walz needed to say, Vance’s position on disasters is, “You’re on your own.”
2. “common sense”—whose? my common sense is that if a person says they’ll make up a story to get people’s attention on a topic, that means they’re a liar who’ll use any means to get what they want, no matter who gets hurt (in fact enjoying and reveling in who gets hurt). Liar, sadist, seditionist.
3. experts—Who? what experts said offshoring was way to go but those who stood to profit from slave wages? PROFITEERS AREN’T experts at anything but the skim and the con. The GOP and GOP-lite Dems, in deference to corporate America, drove the gutting of our mfg sector. Which btw Biden/Harris is helping rebuild. But JDV does listen to one kind of expert, billionaire wannabe oligarchs like his patron and groomer Thiel. Whose only expertise was being first to market with online payments platform PayPal, along with Elon; everything else purchased with that gelt.
I was pleasantly surprised the debate was civil. That’s a positive. I thought Walz was understandably nervous in the beginning, but was able to gain more confidence as the debate progressed. I thought he was able to make some good points and was especially impressive targeting Vance with the near final question of “do you think DJT won the 2020 election.” (Though JD shirted that answer)
I AM NO FAN OF VANCE, TO SAY I AM REPULSED BY HIM IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT. But, for people on the fence, he did come across fairly likeable, a good actor. I don’t think the VP debate will sway too many voters one way or another, though my fingers are crossed for WALZ.
Have to vote for Harris/Waltz but I dream that their non-answer answers on Gaza & growing in the surrounding areas are because the cloak from current administration on Israel is too heavy. I cannot turn on a faucet without seeing small children catching drips of water from anything that is dripping.. I weep & am shrouded in guilt.. this cruelty is not human behavior even animals are better than this.
I’ve asked this question a million fucking times (well not here HOL) but of others with a pro Gaza Substack “show”, who will remain anonymous until I can’t take not getting an answer anymore!! HOL .. but why is Joe Biden letting Netanyahu get away with war crimes? No one can seem to answer that question. But as a very early annual subscriber, Mehdi, (say this next part in Mehdi’s British accent, which I love btw and with his demeanor!) I demand an answer!!!!! HOL Is it because they want Netanyahu to bomb the shit out of everyone without our involvement on the ground? Is it because there is some military repercussion the U.S. would face if we stopped sending weapons to Israel?
Would New York be nuked?? Why??????
I believe AIPAC is a major problem. Politicians fear losing its support and jeopardizing their careers if they stand up for Palestine. I checked an AIPAC funding tracker and was shocked by how many politicians receive funding from them. Only a few have opted out. It’s completely immoral for a foreign entity to manipulate and bribe U.S. politicians to push an Israeli agenda. We know the consequences—mass atrocities, and now Lebanon may be next. To fix this, we need to remove big money from politics. We won’t have a true democracy until that happens.
Carina,
Thank you for your reply. I agree money should be taken out of politics also.
How much money is it? AIPAC says they have 3 million members which doesn’t sound like a lot of people but it’s hard to believe all of them are in agreement with Netanyahu’s war, or am I naïve? I’m just tired of this shit. It’s hard to believe that fear of losing donations or votes is allowing this to continue. MEDHI?? Where is your answer???? HOL
This is the same unanswered question I’ve asked a number of times … it’s not only AIPAC….
Maybe in is an airbase in bombing distance of China & Russian,
I heard we are building a military jet refueling station there right now…
I think Gaza touches the Red Sea, I’ve heard there are mineral or oil resources in the Bay…
I think Israel doesn’t touch shipping routes anywhere…
Axis of power alliances are shifting. North Korea, China, Russia & Iran are all neighbors… and supposedly co-operating in getting arms to Russia for Ukraine invasion and perhaps nuclear technology to Iran & North Korea in exchange…
Who can say? Mehdi can… or someone who helps with these streams. I very much want to know.
Thank you for this debate of the debate. I couldn't watch it past the first question. What a horror! Why must we all agree to bomb Iran? I can't and never would vote for Trump, but are Harris/Walz just going to keep sending bombs to the mideast? How does one vote for genocide? Of course Trump will continue to send bombs as well. I think there are many more people who feel as I do, and we are not the lost voter demographic of Muslims and the young. That the Democrats could lose is a very real possibility, and they've done it to themselves.