I think your question about what propelled the desire for a safe homeland is an important one. The hundreds of years of anti-Semitism in Europe make that question an important one to me. I do think student protests are important in this moment, and that they’re being used as an excuse to crack down on free speech and protest.…
I think your question about what propelled the desire for a safe homeland is an important one. The hundreds of years of anti-Semitism in Europe make that question an important one to me. I do think student protests are important in this moment, and that they’re being used as an excuse to crack down on free speech and protest. I hate falling into old binaries and arguments in a moment when we want to think more deeply. And, like you, I want Zeteo comments to be as historically-driven as Mehdi’s work. I don’t want us to fall into easily laid traps and want to respect that there are some complexities in your argument that ought not be reduced or dismissed.
In your eyes, has Zionism been an effective method? And, has Zionism been the best strategy for creating safety for Jews globally? Elsewhere, Mehdi and others have argued that the history and reality of political Zionism have a lot to show us about who urged it, and who continues to benefit most from it today. In the US, evangelical Christian Zionists, funded by dark money forces (billionaires), are leading this political moment behind the scenes and using Jews as a smokescreen for their nefarious efforts. I want a safe place for Jews, but the story of safety that a traumatized people have been sold has justified more genocide and that is horrifying. Jews and Muslims, Israelis and Palestinians are both religious and genetic cousins. The history of colonization, racism, of whitening Jews, or demonizing Islam, of the creation of Europe, of all this really ought to be teased out to help us arrive at a terrain of debate that doesn’t shy away from its complexity. And, complexity can also help bring ethical, political, and social clarity to which answers will NOT save us.
I appreciate your willingness to engage and I hope that others here will take the valid and strong points you make and respond to those. I want us all to practice the difficult work of democracy. I disagree with many of your points about the value of protest, about Israeli (and US) citizens’ complicity with the Netanyahu regime, but within it I hear angst and nervousness about a potential “worst” that is yet to come. It sounds like neither of us want more Trump, and we have different ideas about how to avoid that. My ideas are to lean into the power of civic engagement and to hold steady rather than to cow to a disengaged public’s discomfort with protest. You may have other ideas. I think this platform should exist and be accessible for all of us who want to truly explore these issues with the context Naomi and Mehdi provide and take that as our point of departure. I don’t want these comments sections to become dunking/sparring sessions. I want us to think through this hard and scary moment together.
We need teach ins and learning moments. College Campuses are perfect for that.
Taking over buildings and setting up encampments changes the conversation to “keeping college safe”, etc. none students being called to join the encampments magnifies the “safety “ issue. Are we smart enough to predict what this will lead to and is it what we want. I see calls for the University President to be fired and bring in someone tougher. I see the engaged students being expelled and many might now have a hard time getting employed. It isn’t right, but that is the reality of the world we live in.
I absolutely agree that we need teach-ins and learning moments, and college campuses are perfect for that. I also wonder if the encampments and building take-overs could be a part of that kind of curriculum because there have been moments where those tactics have been incredibly impactful. I was a student organizer at USC during the early 00's and we spent so much energy trying to make meetings with administrators, writing op-eds, organizing student study groups, etc. for various social issues, and all our attempts were either ignored, swatted down, or actively undermined. I think university administrations (and other leadership) can do their part to be more responsive to student politics so we don't get to this fever pitch. I don't want to blame students for taking "last resort options" when university administrations are so dismissive of them. Especially these days, where students are seen as disposable customers, rather than civic minds.
I want everyone on campuses to be safe, as I hear you do as well. I hear you when it comes to the public perception of the encampments - I often dip into Fox News to see how stories are being spun and this one seems rife for false equivalency with Jan 6 (I'm already seeing this happen). It makes me wonder what protest and civil disobedience mean in the moment of propagandistic spin-zones. I don't think we should let our protest be circumscribed by the anxieties of the worst possible spin, and I also think it's a real consideration given our media landscape. I don't know if it's an issue of not being smart enough to predict what will come of the coverage and emerging narrative - I think it's an issue that we already know how it will be spun and many of us feel a bit helpless in that regard.
I am with you also on having concerns for students getting expelled. The fact that students are willing to risk expulsion and huge impacts on their future tells me just how important and urgent this moment is for them. I graduated college into the Great Recession and had one helluva time finding a job and that really sucked, and was so scary. It's made me maneuver workplaces a bit more conservatively since then, which is not my nature. I'm wondering if the scales are tipping, where the kinds of material security that come from respectability/degrees no longer outweighs the consequences young people see from staying more reserved in their political tactics. My work puts me in close contact with high school and college students who are very politically active, and generationally it makes me feel concerned for them, and also uncomfortable because I didn't feel I had the kind of mass peer base to protest in the way they do. I'm working hard to exercise intergenerational humility and really listen to the sense of urgency young people have about issues like Palestine, climate change, fascism, and more.
I'm also worried about who will be the next leaders in universities and the way surveillance and federal control of universities may be coming this way. Perhaps these protests are also just showing us the systems of control that have been in place for longer than we realized on university campuses, and they've eerily been in place for a while, awaiting a moment like this one to squash any kind of political uprising. I appreciate your pragmatism, and I just have a lot of questions. Thanks for engaging with me, I appreciate hearing your thoughts. I don't want us to miss where we align because we have some disagreements on strategy.
It isn’t just Fox that is turning this conversation about everything but the essence of the issue. It’s also MSNBC.
If the visual they have is someone breaking a window, it plays all day. If it is someone who looks “radical” and screams that is the loop. If they find a non-student agitator, that will be the focus. There is almost no conversation about what is being asked for by the demonstrators. The shorthand is that they are pro-Palestinian. What does that mean? What are people who hear this expected to think, let alone do?
The purpose of demonstrations is to get attention. It behoves the demonstrators to make it meaningful attention and build on it.
To get people to agree with their thought out and just cause.
Totally, fair enough. You're right - the broader coverage is not great across the spectrum.
It makes me wish that there were more support and guidance given across generations to college students protesting. We used to get some pretty significant advice about discipline and being aware of how things will play out on camera. I can imagine how much more difficult that is these days, given there are cameras everywhere. I wonder if the student activists have specific asks they've delivered to administrations - this is often the case for student leaders but that never gets covered. I wonder what would happen if there were more asks from folks like us to get more nuanced coverage. I don't even know where we can "ask" for that. I hope as this moment and story play out news and media outlets like Zeteo and others help spell that out.
I wonder if letters to the editor or developing some kind of broader letter writing campaign could start to have an impact. I'm not a media expert so don't know the specific leverage points to urge news outlets to have better coverage. I'm sure you and I both know (and are likely a bit cynical) about the profit-driven motives of media outlets these days. It's a frustrating and scary narrative landscape.
DK Brooklyn,
I think your question about what propelled the desire for a safe homeland is an important one. The hundreds of years of anti-Semitism in Europe make that question an important one to me. I do think student protests are important in this moment, and that they’re being used as an excuse to crack down on free speech and protest. I hate falling into old binaries and arguments in a moment when we want to think more deeply. And, like you, I want Zeteo comments to be as historically-driven as Mehdi’s work. I don’t want us to fall into easily laid traps and want to respect that there are some complexities in your argument that ought not be reduced or dismissed.
In your eyes, has Zionism been an effective method? And, has Zionism been the best strategy for creating safety for Jews globally? Elsewhere, Mehdi and others have argued that the history and reality of political Zionism have a lot to show us about who urged it, and who continues to benefit most from it today. In the US, evangelical Christian Zionists, funded by dark money forces (billionaires), are leading this political moment behind the scenes and using Jews as a smokescreen for their nefarious efforts. I want a safe place for Jews, but the story of safety that a traumatized people have been sold has justified more genocide and that is horrifying. Jews and Muslims, Israelis and Palestinians are both religious and genetic cousins. The history of colonization, racism, of whitening Jews, or demonizing Islam, of the creation of Europe, of all this really ought to be teased out to help us arrive at a terrain of debate that doesn’t shy away from its complexity. And, complexity can also help bring ethical, political, and social clarity to which answers will NOT save us.
I appreciate your willingness to engage and I hope that others here will take the valid and strong points you make and respond to those. I want us all to practice the difficult work of democracy. I disagree with many of your points about the value of protest, about Israeli (and US) citizens’ complicity with the Netanyahu regime, but within it I hear angst and nervousness about a potential “worst” that is yet to come. It sounds like neither of us want more Trump, and we have different ideas about how to avoid that. My ideas are to lean into the power of civic engagement and to hold steady rather than to cow to a disengaged public’s discomfort with protest. You may have other ideas. I think this platform should exist and be accessible for all of us who want to truly explore these issues with the context Naomi and Mehdi provide and take that as our point of departure. I don’t want these comments sections to become dunking/sparring sessions. I want us to think through this hard and scary moment together.
(https://youtu.be/K1VTt_THL4A?si=EUEQkoWo-8QK8aXs)
We need teach ins and learning moments. College Campuses are perfect for that.
Taking over buildings and setting up encampments changes the conversation to “keeping college safe”, etc. none students being called to join the encampments magnifies the “safety “ issue. Are we smart enough to predict what this will lead to and is it what we want. I see calls for the University President to be fired and bring in someone tougher. I see the engaged students being expelled and many might now have a hard time getting employed. It isn’t right, but that is the reality of the world we live in.
I absolutely agree that we need teach-ins and learning moments, and college campuses are perfect for that. I also wonder if the encampments and building take-overs could be a part of that kind of curriculum because there have been moments where those tactics have been incredibly impactful. I was a student organizer at USC during the early 00's and we spent so much energy trying to make meetings with administrators, writing op-eds, organizing student study groups, etc. for various social issues, and all our attempts were either ignored, swatted down, or actively undermined. I think university administrations (and other leadership) can do their part to be more responsive to student politics so we don't get to this fever pitch. I don't want to blame students for taking "last resort options" when university administrations are so dismissive of them. Especially these days, where students are seen as disposable customers, rather than civic minds.
I want everyone on campuses to be safe, as I hear you do as well. I hear you when it comes to the public perception of the encampments - I often dip into Fox News to see how stories are being spun and this one seems rife for false equivalency with Jan 6 (I'm already seeing this happen). It makes me wonder what protest and civil disobedience mean in the moment of propagandistic spin-zones. I don't think we should let our protest be circumscribed by the anxieties of the worst possible spin, and I also think it's a real consideration given our media landscape. I don't know if it's an issue of not being smart enough to predict what will come of the coverage and emerging narrative - I think it's an issue that we already know how it will be spun and many of us feel a bit helpless in that regard.
I am with you also on having concerns for students getting expelled. The fact that students are willing to risk expulsion and huge impacts on their future tells me just how important and urgent this moment is for them. I graduated college into the Great Recession and had one helluva time finding a job and that really sucked, and was so scary. It's made me maneuver workplaces a bit more conservatively since then, which is not my nature. I'm wondering if the scales are tipping, where the kinds of material security that come from respectability/degrees no longer outweighs the consequences young people see from staying more reserved in their political tactics. My work puts me in close contact with high school and college students who are very politically active, and generationally it makes me feel concerned for them, and also uncomfortable because I didn't feel I had the kind of mass peer base to protest in the way they do. I'm working hard to exercise intergenerational humility and really listen to the sense of urgency young people have about issues like Palestine, climate change, fascism, and more.
I'm also worried about who will be the next leaders in universities and the way surveillance and federal control of universities may be coming this way. Perhaps these protests are also just showing us the systems of control that have been in place for longer than we realized on university campuses, and they've eerily been in place for a while, awaiting a moment like this one to squash any kind of political uprising. I appreciate your pragmatism, and I just have a lot of questions. Thanks for engaging with me, I appreciate hearing your thoughts. I don't want us to miss where we align because we have some disagreements on strategy.
It isn’t just Fox that is turning this conversation about everything but the essence of the issue. It’s also MSNBC.
If the visual they have is someone breaking a window, it plays all day. If it is someone who looks “radical” and screams that is the loop. If they find a non-student agitator, that will be the focus. There is almost no conversation about what is being asked for by the demonstrators. The shorthand is that they are pro-Palestinian. What does that mean? What are people who hear this expected to think, let alone do?
The purpose of demonstrations is to get attention. It behoves the demonstrators to make it meaningful attention and build on it.
To get people to agree with their thought out and just cause.
Thanks for encouraging a thoughtful exchange.
Totally, fair enough. You're right - the broader coverage is not great across the spectrum.
It makes me wish that there were more support and guidance given across generations to college students protesting. We used to get some pretty significant advice about discipline and being aware of how things will play out on camera. I can imagine how much more difficult that is these days, given there are cameras everywhere. I wonder if the student activists have specific asks they've delivered to administrations - this is often the case for student leaders but that never gets covered. I wonder what would happen if there were more asks from folks like us to get more nuanced coverage. I don't even know where we can "ask" for that. I hope as this moment and story play out news and media outlets like Zeteo and others help spell that out.
I wonder if letters to the editor or developing some kind of broader letter writing campaign could start to have an impact. I'm not a media expert so don't know the specific leverage points to urge news outlets to have better coverage. I'm sure you and I both know (and are likely a bit cynical) about the profit-driven motives of media outlets these days. It's a frustrating and scary narrative landscape.